Words of Advice:

"If Something Seems To Be Too Good To Be True, It's Best To Shoot It, Just In Case." -- Fiona Glenanne

"Foreign Relations Boil Down to Two Things: Talking With People or Killing Them." -- Unknown

"Mobs Do Not Rush Across Town to Do Good Deeds." -- James Lee Burke

"Colt .45s; putting bad guys underground since 1873." -- Unknown

"Stay Strapped or Get Clapped." -- probably not Mr. Rogers

"Let’s eat all of these people!” — Venom

"Eck!" -- George the Cat

Saturday, April 25, 2020

COVID-19 Immunity?

The WHO is saying that there is no evidence that having had COVID-19 means that one is immune to the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

That throws a big wrench into the concept of testing for antibodies as a way to determine when it's somewhat safe to reopen an area's economy.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in Georgia.

14 comments:

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

You find the WHO trustworthy, at this point?

Comrade Misfit said...

I have seen nothing to indicate otherwise, other than the usual carping from the Trump Apologistas.

Dark Avenger said...

Let’s see, one side is grappling with the science, the other suggests injecting corrosive disinfectants as a possible counter-measure.
I think I know what side to trust.

Pigpen51 said...

This from The Conversation, Date April 20.
Was he correct? Well, there is evidence that local officials attempted to cover up the early outbreak, and the WHO director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, has stood by his endorsement of China’s heavy-handed tactics. As with decisions to honour Turkey’s president, Recep Erdogan, and former Zimbabwean ruler Robert Mugabe, Tedros’ stance has been roundly criticised. In his defence, it does seem to stem from a genuine desire to win engagement in order to deliver his mandate of achieving health for all.

It is of note that The Conversation was critical of Trump's decision to hold back money from the WHO. However, given the organizations less than stellar reputation for even handedness, especially concerning America, it is not totally wrong to consider withdrawing funds from them, until they either replace their leadership, or change their China leaning practices. It is obvious that the United States, for it's financial contributions, are not getting the respect and help from what appears to be a political organization, rather than a humanitarian one.
There will, of course, be years and years of discussions about everything that happens that has anything to do with the coronavirus outbreak. And it is pretty obvious that two things are going to come out of this. First, things will no longer be the same, in America, or the entire world. And second, both political parties will make moves to push the country towards their vision of what America should be,rather than the founder's vision of what it should be. Neither one of them will be right, of course. And the end result could be much worse than any virus that the world has ever seen.
People cannot see it happening, but for anyone with a tiny bit of imagination, it is not all that hard to see a lot of violence coming out of this nationwide shutdown,when people are ready to go back to work, and find out that the businesses that they worked at have gone out of business, due to the never ending shutdown. If it becomes bad enough to consider it a second civil war, or not, remains to be seen. But one thing is for sure. Any hostilities that break out, for any reason, will not be a good thing, for the nation or for those involved.

Pigpen51

CenterPuke88 said...

The most basic problem with antibody tests (at the current time, in the U.S.) is that they have a pretty significant false positive rate.

The problem with immunity passports is no one has shown evidence of immunity after infection.

The problem with WHO is there is some manipulating of statements to avoid blaming anyone.

The problem with Donnie is he’s unwilling to spend the necessary prep time to understand what he’s spouting off about and unable to admit his errors. He believes he “naturally” knows best, a common trait for dictator and sociopaths.

dinthebeast said...

One problem with cutting off US funding of the WHO over their alleged deference to China is that China has stepped right up to fill part of the funding gap, thus exerting even more influence over the WHO, sort of the opposite of what Fergus said he wanted from them.
If it were the Fergus administration's assumption that 1) the WHO won't survive without US funding and/or 2) we'd be better off if the WHO just didn't exist, then chalk those up to the large and growing list of major world issues they were spectacularly wrong about.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Comrade Misfit said...

Let's be crystal clear on one point: Trump's beef with the WHO has nothing to do with what the WHO did or didn't do. It is, 100%, a search by Trump for somebody to scapegoat for his failure to act in response to the virus, for his gutting of the pandemic planning staff.

The Times of Israel has reported that the Israelis and NATO were informed by the Trump Administration in late November that there an unknown virus sickening people in China. December, January, February.. other than a porous ban of people coming from China (and no screening of people flying in from northern Italy, by then a known hot spot), Trump was doing nothing but handing out bullshit and bluster. "The virus will go away in April, like a miracle" "we have this totally under control" "there's fifteen cases in Washington, soon there will be none."

All bullshit. But a virus cannot be bullshitted or shouted down. So now Trump's pushing dubious drug therapies and suggesting people inject disinfectant? (The medical term for that is "embalming".) The rest of the world watches in bemusement as Trump supporters try drinking bleach or eating Tide pods.

So Trump has to find someone else to blame and he's chosen the WHO.

Pigpen51 said...

Of course, Trump is an idiot, when it comes to so very many things, mostly those things that affect his ego. But you are being quite unfair when you keep saying that those who support his policies are Tide pod eaters, bleach drinkers, or some other version of morons. Just because a person supports a politicians policies, over a man, such as Joe Biden, who conveniently has been forgiven all of his trespasses, does not make them morons.
Remember, if you will, the angst when Bret Kavanaugh was nominated for the SCOTUS, and at the last minute, Diane Feinstein decided it was time to bring out a letter sent to her, claiming rape, more than 3 decades earlier. We were told we HAD to believe ANY woman who claimed rape. Yet somehow it is different for Joe Biden, who even if he did accost females in the past, judging from his recent mental lapses in memory, he would not remember it if he did. Those who are accusing Biden are supposed to be scorned, and hated. I think that is called a double set of standards.
If you recall, when Trump was running for president, he ran against Hillary Clinton. For any conservative, the choice of who to vote for was easy, even if, like me, they are not a true Republican, but more of a centrist on some issues. So calling those who voted for him, and have been happy with some of the things that he has accomplished, Tide pod eaters, or other version of idiots, is simply unfair. I don't like everything he has done. In fact, there are many things that I dislike. But I would still take him over a Hillary Clinton presidency.
As for the ultraviolet light killing the Coronavirus, it does seem that there is something to be said for that, but of course, it cannot be used on a person. There are companies working on using that method of killing the virus in a large area, such as an arena, so that they can continue to use it for it's intended design.
Am I the only one who remembers that the quarantine was only meant to be for 14 days, the incubation time of the virus,and also meant to flatten the curve, to allow for hospitals and health care workers to be able to keep up with their infected people, and not get hit all at once? I wonder what happened to that? And it is here that the thing starts to feel like a political volley ball, instead of a medical decision made in the public interest.
And we also can think about the media and their role in all of this. As a young person, I thought that the media was supposed to be looking out for the American people, but now, it seems like they have their own agenda, and that is to cause harm to the president no matter what he does. We have seen it since the beginning of his term in office. Of course, I doubt that anyone will agree with me, so I won't bother to point out any of the instances of media bias. If anyone can show me a case where the media said that the president had done a good thing,at anything, I would love to know of that.
Here is a link to a company using UV light to disinfect large spaces. Nobody thinks that disinfectants ingested, are the way to go, but if you wish to get technical, a disinfectant is anything that kills infection, so many of our modern antibiotics are actually disinfectants.
https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/business/108051/antwerp-company-uses-uv-light-to-battle-coronavirus-uvc/
pigpen51

Dark Avenger said...

Pigpen51

What you've written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone who read it is now dumber for having listened to it. May God have mercy on your soul.

Pete said...

Wow, DA, way to win hearts and minds.

Pete

Dark Avenger said...

But you are being quite unfair when you keep saying that those who support his policies are Tide pod eaters, bleach drinkers, or some other version of morons.

New York City says its poison control center received a higher-than-normal number of calls in the day after President Trump speculated that injecting household disinfectants could be a coronavirus treatment.

The city's Department of Health and Mental Hygiene said that in an 18-hour period ending at 3 p.m. Friday, the poison control center recorded 30 cases. These included nine "specifically about exposure to Lysol, 10 cases specifically about bleach and 11 cases about exposures to other household cleaners," department spokesperson Pedro F. Frisneda tells NPR. That compares with only 13 cases for the same time frame one year ago.
At Thursday's daily briefing, Trump conjectured that ingesting disinfectant could be worth looking into as a way to treat the virus.

"I see the disinfectant — where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?"


https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/25/845015236/nyc-poison-control-sees-uptick-in-calls-after-trumps-disinfectant-comments

https://youtu.be/Vpdt7omPoa0

“I love the poorly educated.”

Sorry to be so rude as to bring in the facts during this conversation.






That same day, the city's health commissioner released a message discouraging New Yorkers from injecting bleach and other disinfectants.

"Very clearly, disinfectants are not intended for ingestion either by mouth, by ears, by breathing them in — in any way, shape or form. And doing so can put people at great risk," said Dr. Oxiris Barbot in a video posted to Twitter.

Pete said...

"Sorry to be so rude as to bring in the facts during this conversation."

How is reading a post and then telling that person they are stupid a conversation?

Maybe if you had responded to Pigpen51 with the response you gave me . . .

Pigpen51,

Regarding double standards with respect to sexual assault cases, I don't think there are double standards as much as this is just a complicated, cultural issue that will take a long time for society to figure out. Kavanaugh (despite the drama, he still got the Supreme Court seat), Biden and Trump come away unscathed, while Cosby, Franken and O'Rielly take the fall.

Regarding Covid-19, I saw an epidemiologist interviewed on TV last week sometime. The discussion was about why guidance was changing so often. The doctor described Covid-19 as a baby virus that was 4-1/2 to 5 months old that we know almost nothing about. Doctors try to piece together information by using related virus data, but this virus hasn't necessarily acted like previous viruses. The original 14-day quarantine was set by early data, but since then doctors have seen cases run 3 and 4+ weeks. My thought is that it's going to take years to figure out the facts about this virus.

And politicians will use the issue as a political volleyball if there's any chance it will get them votes.

Pete

Pigpen51 said...

I have no real problem when some person attacks me, when they are wrong. Just because some people did something stupid, doesn't mean that all of those who support Trump's policies are stupid, any more than all people who cheat, lie and steal are supporters of the Clintons.
Pete, I do think you hit it right, when you said that the understanding of the virus is evolving, since it is a relatively new disease. There is just a vast problem of, at what point does the country have to accept that we cannot sustain a quarantine for an extended period of time, before things begin to breakdown, both from a social point of view, and from a plain and simple logistics point of view. The food supply chain just cannot sustain things forever, without having extreme breakdowns, and if the government continues to pump money into the economy, by the same means that they have been doing, without adding any value to the economy, what we saw in the very early 80's, inflation wise, will be a pleasant memory, as we can expect to see the value of the dollar plummet.
Dark Avenger, you ask God to have mercy on my soul. While I appreciate your sentiment, I am afraid that I am one of those crazy Christians, who believe that Jesus died for me, and I am confident in my place after my death. That is all I will discuss about religion, since it can become a very heated thing, and this should not end up like that.
By the way, I understand that you disagree with me. That doesn't make me think you are stupid, and you demean yourself when you sink to name calling.

pigpen51

dinthebeast said...

By the way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&feature=youtu.be

Just so the reference makes sense.

-Doug in Sugar Pine