Words of Advice:

"If Something Seems To Be Too Good To Be True, It's Best To Shoot It, Just In Case." -- Fiona Glenanne

"Flying the Airplane is More Important than Radioing Your Plight to a Person on the Ground
Who is Incapable of Understanding or Doing Anything About It." -- Unknown

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.” -- Mark Twain

"Stay Strapped or Get Clapped." -- probably not Mr. Rogers

"Eck!" -- George the Cat

Tuesday, March 2, 2021

Republicans Love Them Some of That Good Old Jim Crow

Republicans in Georgia’s state legislature have introduced a flood of bills aimed at rolling back voting access after record turnout led to Democratic wins in the presidential contest and two U.S. Senate runoffs.

And Georgia isn’t alone. The Brennan Center for Justice, a public policy group, has counted more than 250 bills under consideration in 43 states that would restrict voting access.

Republicans have concluded that they cannot win a free and fair election in which it is made as easy as possible for every eligible voter to vote. They have given up on the idea of trying to persuade Americans that they have better ideas, better policies.

So they're concentrating on making it harder for people to vote. They're not even trying to hide their motivation.


That's really no different, except in degree, from the days of when their ancestors used naked terrorism to discourage Black people from voting. Republicans are demonstrating, from their actions, that they are the party of fascism. As has been nakedly apparent since 1/6/21, Republicans do not believe in freedom and liberty. Every Republican who has since said the Pledge of Allegiance has committed the sin of swearing a false oath.

By the way, anyone who says "but those people were Democrats" is deliberately ignoring the flip in the parties that occurred in the 1960s, following the enactment of several civil rights acts by the Johnson Administration. They're ignoring the blatant appeal to racism by Nixon, Reagan and Bush41. They're ignoring the flood of Southern white racists who switched parties (Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, et al). Comments that ignore those inconvenient historical facts will be treated as trolling.

35 comments:

Ten Bears said...

The fine print should be in bold face across the top.

B said...

So lesse:

Showing an ID to vote is racist.

Having to have a reason to vote via mail and not to show up at a polling place and vote is racist.

Exctly how is any of what you posted truthful?

Dark Avenger said...

People have voted all over the place without having to use ID.

It’s obvious that Republicans have shown a disdain for small d democratic processes.

Ten Bears said...

Been voting by mail in Oregon since 1987 ('81, actually), never been a problem.

Why is it a problem now, * ?

You wouldn't know the truth if it bit your butt.

Comrade Misfit said...

For most of my adult life, I have not needed an ID to vote.

Glenn Kelley said...

Your voter registration system was stacked from the getgo . It was never meant to be inclusionary .

Comrade Misfit said...

My cousin’s in a nursing home. She doesn’t drive, but she would have to go get photo ID just to vote? How does that make sense, unless the rationale is to keep people from voting?

J4rh34d said...

We have vote by mail in Oregon primarily due to the efforts of Secretary of State (1977-1985) Norma Paulus, a Republican. One of the arguments was to make it easier for rural folks to vote.

0_0 said...

The exchange quoted references people taking their ballots to the wrong precinct, which may have different down-ballot contests. Did anyone listen to the clip to hear why the DNC has standing?

I don't remember needing an ID to vote, but my signature is taken and was available to be used as a reference. Do we not want any means to validate ballots?

Ten Bears said...

Oregon's double-envelope system: you fill out your ballot, sharpie is ok but really, that's just being an asshole, black ink pen is best, blue is ok, everybody has one. You put the filled out ballot in the super secret double-envelope with your signature that if need be can be compared to your signature on file, all of which glaringly identified in red white and blue as "Official Oregon Ballot", "Official US Mail".

When you look at the multitude of means by which to register to vote, they all include one important and apparently overlooked fact: they all require you prove who you are when you register to vote. Is the suggestion here the DMV is incapable of (generally) determining who someone is? Is the suggestion here the DMV is issuing drivers licenses to and registering people to vote who haven't satisfactorily identified themselves?

There's grasping at straws, and there's the wind whistling through the pines.

dan gerene said...

I had older relatives who never any ID since they never drove. There are people now who do not drive because of age or infirmities. If you say they can get a state ID but make it extremely difficult by distance or the times when the ID place is open or "you didn't bring enough proof, try again" then that's voter suppression. These things seem to be aimed at areas that have more minorities and do not have the wherewithal to jump through hoops to get IDs.

Dark Avenger said...

0_0, signature matching is fine, but asking for IDs, which cost money to obtain, is a bridge too far, as voting is a right, not a privilege like driving.

B said...

And yet, in most states you can get an ID FOR FREE.

Oddly, you need an ID for a bank account, to do nearly any other government business, financial business, etc. One cannot do business without an ID except for voting. Strange.

But showing an ID is racist.
Your argument is disingenuous at best.

Ten Bears said...

Disingenuous is the only documented cases of voter fraud since the turn of the century have been Republican.

White-bred is in-bred.

Dark Avenger said...

And you still don’t get the point, you need an ID to show you have the right to drink, or the right to drive. Signature matching is enough to prevent fraud, from my own researches into the subject.

At least eight states issue free or discounted IDs to low-income or homeless residents and at least 10 states waive ID fees for seniors. New York issues free IDs to low-income seniors.

Why wasn’t this a problem when Bush II and Trump were in office, but it was one when Obama was and Biden is the President?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/id-fee-identification-homeless-philadelphia-20180925.html%3FoutputType%3Damp

Eck! said...

B, your still full of it.

Lets see,
back when I lived in the woods of Pa and was nearly 5 miles from the
main roads, 12 miles to the local village, 24 miles to the county seat.

In the 70s and 80s in PA to get a drivers license for the state
(become a resident) you had to go to the nearest state police barracks.
That was 35 miles one way as they had to have a picture of you (one
they took). They only did that on certain days, plan your day off
without pay.

To vote in all elections (county, state, federal) go to the local town
hall prove residence (bills or other) to enroll. Town hall was about
14 miles away. Easy if you drive. A friend had a broken leg and a
stick shift and clutch was impossible so I had to drive him.

If you are handicapped or can't drive getting to town hall was often
a major trip. Friends were required to transport you. I know
someone that rode a horse into town. Small town, no public transport
or taxi service. The farm had a horse.

So yes ID is a big deal. If there is no provisions for getting it.

Why require it if you have a census of the residents in the town or
berg to check against like where I am in Ma. Of course you had to
enroll to be on that census.

Its all about ways to exclude those people, especially poors and
not white.

And there is still no steal or cheating of any significance.
No proof, not any.


Eck!

B said...

Eck!

Who is full of it?

It ain't the 70's and '80's now. It is nearly half a century later.
Welcome to the future. You might try leaving your house and look out and see what the world is like now.

Oddly enough, all the DNC acolytes thought that giving ID's to Illegals was a good idea, but now having to show one is a bad idea. It is odd (and telling) how your stories and arguments change as you argue different ways to cheat the citizens of the country.

BTW, most states that require an Id to vote (those without a large DNC led government, oddly enough) have required an ID to vote for the past 6 or more elections...It's only where the DNC types hold sway that that isn't so....(and, oddly, where we see the most allegations of Fraud that are, interestingly enough, unverifiable by those same DNC types....)

Why can you not be honest? You aren't stupid, nor am I. If you truly cared for your country and the citizens ...more than holding the power to force your reforms and changes upon the country, you'd want honest elections....but you don't. All I can figure is that you know you would not win cleanly with clean elections. And you would not be able to push your progressive agenda forward without cheating.

I'd be all for wins for "progressive" candidates and such if you didn't make such disingenuous arguments against clean, clear, fai elections and polling.
Instead you say that voting on a given day is unfair to minorities, or that having to have an ID is unfair to minorities...what, exactly, do you think they do such that they already don't need one for everyday living? Do you think that black and brown people live somehow differently than whites, in a world where they don't do banking and operate automobiles and never interact with government? Or are you just lying?



Ten Bears said...

All right there in the twits, * ...

Catholic Conservative Republican Supreme Court Justice Amy Covid Barrett asked, “What’s the interest of the Arizona RNC in keeping, say, the out-of-precinct ballot disqualification rules on the books?” Translation: "Why are you here?"

Michael Carvin, attorney representing the Arizona Republican Party, “Because it puts us at a competitive disadvantage relative to Democrats.” Translation: "Because we can only win by cheating." I don't know what you're smokin' *, and I don't want any of it.

Not too far off topic: just curious, just how exactly do you go about disguising yourselves as “antifa”? Take off the floral shirt? Asking for an acquaintance.

Others have noted over the post couple of posts a change in your style *, as if you are not the * we've become accustomed to. There is some merit to that, and I could argue this post indicates you're not even of this country, that you're not from around here.

Eck! said...

Well B,
you are.

At that time that was the northern border of the mason dixon line,
least so it seemed to me. Officially it wasn't but people acted
that way. Checking back its about the same. Its like many parts
of the country where you are not close to a 4 lane interstate
and cell coverage sucks.

Where I was before that and after more closely represented the modern
world. I voted on the set day and the few times I was in Canada for
business I took advantage of the system that allowed me to vote by
absentee ballot. It was important to me. Service men often do that.

Voting on a given day was never spoken of or for that fact mail in.
You are dragging that dead horse in. What you want has no reality
and stop being full of yourself over it.

If you do not have computers or network services then banking is in
person and cars are required. while many of us do that 70% is in
suburbs ad cities and those services are not free. Lots of people
are not wired to that extent. Your privilege is showing.

As to caring for my fellow citizens and country, who are you to
question that? Are you that puffed up? Are you that sudden woke?
Your assumption of my political affiliation is exactly that. You
do not know.

The rest of that stuff is a rant and incoherent. Honest is easy, I am.
Problem is it doesn't match your version of alternate facts. That's
tough you cant just get away with it. I do not wish to pursue a pointless
discussion with an irrational person that has fantasy issues. I can't
accept falsehoods and propaganda presented as the truth. However if
you persist in presenting that propaganda as truth I will call it.
Spreading propaganda is not in the best interest of anyone.


Eck!

Eck! said...

DA,

Question...

"At least eight states issue free or discounted IDs to low-income or homeless residents and at least 10 states waive ID fees for seniors. New York issues free IDs to low-income seniors."

Do they come to your residence, the home, or are you expected to
go somewhere to get to them?


An aside that is 10 of 50 (I used the larger of your numbers). In
all the places in the USA that is not a majority, or concensus.

Also when did NY become the standard for what the rest of the
country does or should do?

just askin.

I agree I think B had a stroke or is being impersonated.


Eck!

Glenn Kelley said...

B, If you truly cared about the future of your country you would be supporting laws that supported the registration of every legal voter . It makes it much easier to catch the cheats and it's not that hard to do.

B said...

Eck: Not sure how to respond to your somoewhat incoherent rambling. If you could be more clear, I will gladly respond.

Glenn:

I am all for "Registration of every LEGAL VOTER". I am, however, against allowing anyone to claim that they are a legal voter without some sort of proof of who they are.....Voter ID laws would force that. Prevent fraud so that every LEGAL vote counts and is not diluted by fraudulent ones. Resgistration isn't that hard. One can do it in lots of places, Having an ID isn;t that hard to accomplish, and face it, despite what Eck says, one needs to ahve an ID to get a bank account and to do most other business. Few ^legal^ citizens do not have an ID. Showing up at a polling place and showing and ID to prove that you are a legal voter isn't that hard, lots of states require it, and legal voters can therefore vote. It makes it harder for the ILLEGAL and fraudulent voters to try to vote. Any claim that having an ID to vote is a hardship is a lie, and you know it.

dinthebeast said...

Let's see, I live in that communist hellhole called California, and have voted by mail since 2010, and my state issued ID (I don't drive since my stroke) cost me thirty-seven US dollars the first time, and thirty-seven more each subsequent time.
On it is the signature that they compare with the one I sign on the mail-in ballot's envelope.
The DMV, contrary to the wisdom of the propaganda, simply handed me a voter registration form to fill out when I was there renewing my ID. Just like the ones at the post office or on the clipboards of folks in the grocery store parking lot.
And the fraud issue is pure bullshit. There's a goddamn bar code on the ballots that identify them as mine, to be checked against the official rolls of registered voters.
Nobody is gonna get a fraudulent ballot counted without being on the rolls, which is another way of saying being registered to vote.
It's all a method the goddamn Republicans, who have won the popular vote in a presidential election once since the late eighties, use to suppress the vote turnout among people who don't have the resources of your garden variety Republican.
All we are really saying here is that those people are citizens and deserve to have their vote counted even if they have difficulties conforming to the rules set up by people who wish they didn't exist.
One thing I would like to point out that gets lost in the conflict and hatred, is that mail in voting enables higher quality voting decisions, as you can spend an evening with your ballots and your laptop making sure each mark on those ballots is the best mark you could make, given your political preferences, with nobody waiting for you to finish so they can use the machine.

-Doug in Sugar Pine


B said...

So if they just "handed you a ballot" how is the barcode in any way able to identify it as yours?
please xplaain how people handing out ballots in a grocery store parking lot or at a Post Office can in any way guarranty an absence of fraud?

Yet even you point out that there is a signature to be matched to prevent fraud....how could one do that without an ID to prove the original signature is valid? How can you be sure that the person claiming to be someone on the voter rolls is really that person? Please xplain how (your statement) "Nobody is gonna get a fraudulent ballot counted without being on the rolls" if there is no verification that that person is who he (or she) says they are?

Please xplain how an ID requirement is voter supression? I mean, seeing as how an ID is needed for every other facet of life...

I think you are like the college students in this video. You think black people are somehow lesser beings that need the help of white people to have a life. (Note: I don't think that).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk&feature=emb_logo

I (and most conservatives) think that black and brown people are at the same level of intelligence and ability as the rest of us and really don't need to be led by the hand or get special treatment because they are lesser, unlike folks like you who apparently think otherwise. If black or brown people want to vote, they will... If they have no ID, then they probably aren't legal. Your arguments that people don't have ID's might have been valid 25 years ago when one could have a bank account without a valid ID...but those days died in 9-11 and today, you need an ID or you ahve to get paid in cash and can't have a credit or debit card..... To say otherwise is a LIE. You know it as well as I do.

Eck! said...

B,

You got it in your own format. You could not understand it, so
now you know why we treat you as the propagator of lies that
you are. In elementary grade English; you repeat stories that
are not true. Stop promoting lies.

The problem for the GQP is that they do not want people
voting for anyone unless its them. No implications on
the voters save for the GQP is a racist party. They move
the lines as needed to insure they can't.


Dale,
Older, from the generation where men could be drafted at 18
and were but couldn't drink nor vote. The first president
I could vote was for Carter, back then you had to be 21. If
it was 18 it would have been likely Nixon even then it was
hold your nose and vote for the least worst of two evils.
We know better now. Since then there have been few I didn't
hold my nose and vote

Back then the process was clear and simple. We still had people
trying to subvert the system though usually it was for the county
sheriff or dog catcher.


Eck!

Ten Bears said...

Headline at your daily chaos right this minute: Kansas Republican admits to vote fraud,
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/3/3/2019064/-Kansas-Republican-agrees-to-diversion-in-the-voter-fraud-case-admits-to-voter-fraud

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see ...

dinthebeast said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dinthebeast said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dinthebeast said...

OK, B, one more time, really slowly and using small words so even you can understand it:
"The DMV, contrary to the wisdom of the propaganda, simply handed me a voter registration form to fill out when I was there renewing my ID. Just like the ones at the post office or on the clipboards of folks in the grocery store parking lot."

Voter registration forms. Not ballots. Forms you use to register to vote with. I am not advocating for any specific election procedures, just reporting on the procedures already in place in that communist hellhole called California. You know, the one that a significant portion of Republican morons believe let millions of non citizens vote in the 2016 election? They already have strong protections against in person fraud, which isn't really a thing anywhere, but has to be protected against to calm the goddamn infantile fits thrown by corrupt Republicans who can't win fair elections and have decided to throw out democracy instead.
Your argument about bank accounts demonstrates your ignorance of poverty. I have gone decades without having a bank account and know scores of folks personally who have never had one and probably never will. They should still be allowed to vote, as they are taxpaying US citizens.
The fact that you can't conceive of living the way they do does not mean that they don't live that way, and living that way, at least so far, is still legal here in these United States of America, so making it more difficult for them to vote is one thing and one thing only; an attempt to disenfranchise them by the party they are likely to vote against.
And thank you for throwing in the comments about race and showing your hand. I never said a damn thing about race. I was talking about poverty. The fact that you conflate the two tells your whole story.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

B said...

So, in todays times, you only pay and get paid in cash? Really?
You never got a check? Ever?
You never had to pay a bill via mail?
Never owned a Debit Card?
You never got government aid (which comes via Direct Deposit now).
Never got asked by a cop for ID?
Never had to go to a clinic or a Doctor? Never had to buy pharmacuticals?
Never had to show ID to buy liquor?


I call bullshit. I think you are lying. Not needing an ID might have been true once, but not in the past 20 or so years.

Borepatch said...

Q. What happens when a significant portion of the electorate thinks that elections are rigged and that voting no longer matters (whether this is actually true or not)?

A. We're fixin' to find out.

I would think that in these circumstances all responsible parties would be encouraging more transparency in the election process. Sadly, we have two irresponsible parties.

Optimates or Populares? Well, at least the circuses are entertaining and the bread is free.

dinthebeast said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dinthebeast said...

I have ID now, as I said above. I didn't have a bank account for more than a decade.
To do so I had to cash my paychecks at a check cashing place, as banks want two forms of picture ID to cash a paycheck if you don't have an account with them. When cashing my paycheck, I had to get money orders for the rent and utility bills. This all cost money to do, just one of the ways that it is expensive to be poor in America. As I remember, cashing the check was 2%, and the money orders were five bucks a pop.
I still know many people who handle their finances that way. They are called poor people. The systems you describe make it difficult for them to just live their lives, but they do go on living, paying taxes, and voting when the goddamn Republicans let them.
It doesn't surprise me a bit that you don't believe they live that way, or any other way besides the way you live and thus approve of.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

B said...

Dale:

If yer dumb enough to live that way, that is, indeed, your right.

But by the same token, if you are unwilling to get an ID so you can vote, then that also is your choice.

And I think you are living in the past. While once you could live without an ID, today it is much harder. This ain't the 90's anymore. How you gonna get yer Free Shit without a bank account? See, they only do Direct Deposit these days.... Lots of other changes you might be unaware of. As I said, this is the present, not the past.
Your arguments are BS. You know it as well as I do.

Question: If yer unwilling to go 20 blocks to get an ID, what makes anyone think you would be willing to travel a similar distance and show up at a polling place to vote?

dinthebeast said...

The nearest DMV to my current home is in Mariposa and according to Google maps is 36 miles or 48 minutes by car. That's a bit farther than 20 blocks, and not accessible without a car. I suppose I could walk there with my quad-cane in a couple of days.
When you vote by mail, you only have to go to the closest mail pickup box.
That is the current state of voting, and you are the one living in the past denying it. I haven't "showed up at a polling place" since 2008.
And god damn it, how many times do I have to tell you that I have a fucking ID?
This makes four, so far.
So can we agree that I have a fucking ID? That I've always had an ID? I drove a fucking truck for my living for nearly fifteen years. We were talking about bank accounts, and no, you don't have to have one to live in modern society.
My goddamn landlord doesn't have a bank account, for chrissake.
Poor people exist, and they don't do things the way you do because they can't.
Whether they would want to or not is an entirely different question.
Making it harder for them to vote is an attempt to disenfranchise them because of their political leanings.
What you think they should do or be doesn't matter any more than what they think you should do or be.
You are not better than they are. You do not deserve more representation in the United States' government than they do.
Denying that people exist won't make them go away.

-Doug in Sugar Pine