Words of Advice:

"Never Feel Sorry For Anyone Who Owns an Airplane."-- Tina Marie

If Something Seems To Be Too Good To Be True, It's Best To Shoot It, Just In Case." -- Fiona Glenanne

Flying the Airplane is More Important than Radioing Your Plight to a Person on the Ground
Who is Incapable of Understanding or Doing Anything About It.
" -- Unknown

"There seems to be almost no problem that Congress cannot, by diligent efforts and careful legislative drafting, make ten times worse." -- Me

"What the hell is an `Aluminum Falcon'?" -- Emperor Palpatine

"Eck!" -- George the Cat

Friday, March 10, 2017

Blow It Out Yer Ass, John

Kasich calls for Democrats to work with Republicans to enact TrumpCare.

Kasich conveniently forgets that the Republicans in Congress decided that their approach to enacting health care legislation in `09-`10 was to say no to everything. The ACA was patterned on the very plans that the Republicans wanted in the 1990s and on RomneyCare in Massachusetts. Republicans, out of hatred and spite for President Obama, chose to stonewall and, at the time, the Democrats were able to cobble up the votes to enact the ACA.

Well, now the Republicans want to repeal the ACA and replace it with TrumpCare, something that is far worse, and Kasich expects the Democrats to play along? When one of the pushers of TrumpCare clearly doesn't understand how insurance works?

Republicans aren't interested in "fixing" health care. Everybody knows it, except maybe John Kasich. The GOP has bleated that they would repeal the ACA and they whined and kicked and took comfort in the fact that they didn't have the power to do that. They were like a bunch of lance corporals complaining about the Corps.

But now they have to make good on their promises, and they want the Democrats to play along? Fat fucking chance. The GOP owns this pig, TrumpCare, let them dance with it.

So, blow it out yer ass, John.


dinthebeast said...

"Why won't you cooperate and help us bugger you? Don't you like freedumb?"

To quote the HTIC (head turtle in charge):
Uh, no.

And Ryan? Just another demonstration of what a fraud he really is. The media wants so bad for there to be a smart, capable, conservative policy wonk to play that role in their "both sides" business model, I mean narrative, and they decided that he looks the part, so never mind the fact that he's doing his dead level best to turn the country into an Ayn Rand novel, he's their guy.

-Doug in Oakland

Nangleator said...

I don't want a single molecule of Democratic DNA on that steaming pile. It will be one of the cement boots that will sink the GOP forever. The other will be the treason of allowing Russia access to our government.

B said...

The Repubs chose not to in any way support Obamacare because they (like the rest of us) knew it would crater into a steaming pile of shit. I agreed with their choice. It had nothing to do with "hatred and spite" but rather the wishes of their constituents.

Trumpcare will likely be no better. One cannot have Socialized medicine and reasonable costs.

I'd rather see 'em scrap the whole enchilada, really. It would be painful but better in the end.

No one owes anyone any healthcare. it isn't a right, no matter how much you wish it was.

CenterPuke88 said...

I'm starting to buy the theory that they want this to fail. Rush forward, try to ignore CBO, plenty of stuff their base is mad about, all their think tanks and other supporters opposed, AMA and other major medical groups opposed...

Have it die a messy death, shrug and move onto the tax reform and minor tinkering with The ACA.

deadstick said...

"No one owes anyone any healthcare. it isn't a right"
Correct, counselor. It's just what civilized people do.

B said...

SO, "Deadstick".

Whose health insurance are you paying for?

Y'see, liberals always want the "government" to pay for shit like this, but they never step up and pay themselves. It is always everyone else's money.

So, again, what stranger are you paying $800 a month to for health insurance?

Seeing as that is "what civilized people do".

deadstick said...

"Whose health insurance are you paying for? "
Maybe yours, if you lose your job. Life has been reasonably decent to me, and some of my tax money goes to help people who haven't rolled their point as often. And you know what? It doesn't make my pocket rocket feel the least bit smaller.

Comrade Misfit said...

Nobody has a right to passable roads, clean water, books at the libraries, restaurants inspected for sanitation or a basic education.

But we have all of those things, because we have concluded that in a civilized society, we should have those things. So I see no reason why medical care should not be on discussed.

B said...

"Nobody has a right to passable roads, clean water, books at the libraries, restaurants inspected for sanitation or a basic education.
But we have all of those things, because we have concluded that in a civilized society, we should have those things. So I see no reason why medical care should not be on discussed."

A most interesting point of view.

I find it interesting that you conflate those things with Obamacare, which forces people to pay for it. Why not simply give insurance/health care to epople than? Pay for it with taxes like the rest of the items you mentioned?

Also transportation cars for instance. And houses. In your view, shouldn't those all be a human right as well?
So just like Obamacare, we all should get crappy cars and shitty houses?....And be forced to buy them?

CenterPuke88 said...

Medicare and Medicaid are paid for from my taxes...I pay taxes to help maintain and build infrastructure in my city, county, state and country...I pay taxes (less recently) to support the local hospitals who provide charity care...

The list goes on B., for things that a civilized people should provide to people. We should provide education so those people can then contribute to the economy and pay taxes in future. We should care as much about the children and the Republicans say they care about the unborn. We should not have people hungry in this country. I could go on, but your blinders are firmly attached.

B said...

So, at what point is enough, enough?

Free education, at the point of a gun from those who are productive citizens.

Free housing at the point of a gun from those productive citizens

Free food, at the point of a gun from the productive citizens.

Free cell phones, the cost of which is taken from the productive citizens at the point of a gun.

Now free health care, at the point of a gun from those productive citizens.

At what point is enough enough? How much should you, can you, take from the productive citizens to give to the ones who choose not to take care of themselves?

Why not free cars too?

Nothing is free, it is taken from others. Taken from those who work and make good choices. Given to those who aren't productive, choose not to work, and who make bad choices over and over.

If your system worked, there would be fewer "poor" every year.
Instead, there are more. The system perpetuates.

And yes, taxes are confiscation at the point of a gun. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.

If you really believed what you are saying, you'd decrease your standard of living and give all that money to pay for others. When you choose to live in "poverty" and still work, and give the surplus to pay for others,then I might believe you.
Instead, you want to force the rest of us to continue to pay more along with you.

Remember, the "poor" still somehow always have cash to pay for beer and cigarettes and (for many) drugs.

I've seen poverty elsewhere in the world, what we have here isn't poverty.

CenterPuke88 said...

B., your Ayn Rand is showing. Define "productive citizens"? Do you consider Donald Trump a productive citizen, cause I do not. I suspect he gets more from the government via tax credits and avoidance, government assistance to employees he underpays, tax breaks for developments that often fail the meet the promises...but without his tax returns, we'll never know.

Now, let's take a poorly educated lady (your choice of color) whose education was in a school that had little tax revenue because it was in a depressed area and the state refused to assist it. It doesn't matter how smart she is, she's handicapped. Say she has a subsistence level job, because that's all there is where she lives and there is poor mass transit in her neighborhood and she cannot afford a reliable car. She has to buy groceries at local stores, and often cannot get fresh fruits and vegetables, because they don't get stocked in her food desert. She can't get a better job because she lacks transportation and childcare (had a kid because Planned Parenthood got defunded), because she loses the little assistance she gets if she earns more money, but it wouldn't be enough more after that loss to let her move to an area where the other issues would be reduced. She can be working 60 hours a week, but to YOU, she's not "productive".

I know what I want to say to you and your "please just die attitude", but our hostess would red card me. You disgust me.

Comrade Misfit said...

CP88, if your comment didn't have so much meat in it, I would've deleted it for the last sentence. S you get a Yellow Card this time. But please, next time, I'll skrag it.

B said...

Planned Parenthood hasn't been defunded. Pay attention to reality. (and they don't help prevent girls from getting pregnant)

She chose to sleep with someone and get pregnant. (even if by Not using other birth control....Condoms are cheap and often free). Sorry her parent (I assume only one) couldn't show her that having a child early is a bad thing for most girls and limits your choices in life.....

You say she is stuck in her neighborhood, and perhaps she is. But some folks get out, by making good choices. She doesn't have to choose to live in a shithole. She can find a roommate to share expenses, or make other choices to get closer to a better job. Even get classes in the evenings or weekends to find a way to learn enough to earn more. Many do. Second jobs are one way to earn enough to get out....I used to hire people like that. No I didn't pay a high wage. But if they worked, they got paid and eventually got paid more.

And this isn't the person I was referring to anyway, but rather the folks who have NO job, no skills, no work ethic.... Who get free food, free health care, free housing and free phones.....and no reason to work. No reason to even try to. Who demand ever increasing "entitlements" (whoever coined that word need kicked in the nuts). WHo is living in "poverty" but who has enough cash for beer and smokes and (often, but not always) drugs. Who claims she needs more money from the taxpayers but has jewelery worth thousands. Who claims she can't make ends meet but can afford the latest street fashions. Who somehow can find a way to get a new tattoo or can buy new shoes or a new dress or whatever the latest clothes fashion is. Can't feed the kids but can get her hair done every two weeks and her nails done at a salon weekly.
Those are the "unproductive citizens".

(I used to try to hire these folks, for as long as they could make it to work. I gave scholarships for those who wanted them if they could stay employed for a year..... I would bet that I moved more out of "poverty" than you have with your good intentions)

But most are 'Poor" because they make choices that make 'em poor. Over and over and over.

And to our kind hostess: I find it interesting that you are willing to break your own rules just because you agree with CP88. Remember what I said about double standards?

Let him say all he wants about me. He doesn't know me. Doesn't know my history. Doesn't know that I tutored disadvantaged high school kids twice a week until the teachers union put a stop to that. Doesn't know that I worked with teaching cooking classes at a local church (even though I wasn't a member of that church) to teach how to stretch the food dollar. Doesn't know that I taught mechanics and welding and carpentry and other skills with other (mostly white) men to black kids who had no male family members to teach 'em man things. Who has seen the tragedy of people who are culturally unable to remove themselves from poverty because they can't learn how not to be that way.

All he sees is someone who disagrees with his view...not someone who has helped some, and failed but tried to help others.

I'd wonder by his writing here if he has ever met and worked with folks that he thinks more government money will help.
I have.

CenterPuke88 said...

Dear B., I think you are repeating what you accuse me of...assuming about me.

Now, as to your "facts". Planned Parenthood has been defended in several states and is to be defended in all states under the Federal proposal. Planned Parenthood DOES provide contraceptives to women, often the only place that can do it same day, including the most effective forms. Automatically assume one parent eh? Better check the stats from Texas, where teen pregnancy rates have risen, and it isn't the groups you expect.

Your beloved party wishes to control this woman's body to the extent that she is the one that bears the repercussion of an unexpected pregnancy alone, because abortion is "wrong"...they have to protect that fetus, till it's born, then it's on its own!

You know, I grew up in the New Orleans area, where even getting to one job from some of the projects took 3-4 hours, two jobs is a non-starter. Roommates, moving elsewhere, hah...in the South, in case you didn't notice, we're as segregated as before. Now, you'll argue that people are self-segregating, but the reality is that if you consider how a minority is treated outside "their" part of town, why would they move out. Now you argue this is self-defeating, but you have to take the perspective of a person who community has been held down by authorities for years, who knows that a traffic stop can be a death sentence. When's the last time you watched a cop walking up to your car and wondered how it was going to turn out; with you shot, arrested or humiliated?

So, you accuse people of no job, no skills and no work ethic. Funny how some people make it out of there, but when you hear their story, it was always someone who reached out to them, and touched their life. Maybe all those others never got that chance and are just beaten down by the daily grind of living in that "shithole" you describe. Free food and health care has been slashed by Reagan, Bush part Deux and Clinton, Do you remember who started the phones, hint, it was a Republican. We finally started to get people health care, and now you want to destroy that, in a way that most hospitals say will.increase costs and reduce care, nice.

Then you drag out the "welfare queen" ghost. It's a Republican fantasy, sorry to bust your bubble. As for the poor making "poor" choices, perhaps when there is very little choice, the only options are sometimes poor.

And finally you bring out the old trope about being culturally unable to remove themselves from poverty. A gentleman I work with had to, on two occasions, literally step over a dead body outside his door to go to school. But he had a couple of teachers who cared, who motivated him and made him understand he could do the work, and he made it out...and has helped his extended family climb out too. But go and tell him that bull, and you'll watch him clench his fists in anger at the depths of the failure to understand how the "shining city on the hill" could be so vile and abusive to some of it's citizens. Tulsa, OK...Atlanta, GA...Chicago, IL...Rosewood, FL...Washington, D.C....Knoxville, TN...New York City, NY...East St. Louis, IL...8 race riots between 1863 and 1931 where thriving black communities were systematically destroyed by angry mobs. The grand total of white people charged and convicted in all these events, zero.

I suggest that your viewpoint handicaps your ability to help people in this condition. If you project and expectation upon people it is too easy to see what you want to see.

Comrade and B., my apologies for stepping out of line earlier.

B said...

Apology accepted...IMO, friendly and courteous disagreements are ok, vile hatred is not.

So what happened in 1931 and before has what, exactly, bearing on today?

Kids today (and for the past 20 years) can get condoms in SCHOOLS. so what excuse does she have?

What does segregation have to do with having a roommate to share expenses so one can get ahead?

Can't speak to some of the cities that you mention, but I can for South side Chicago and East St Louis....Lots of "help Wanted" signs in the very areas where "poverty" is highest....yet the people choose not to work (and yes, often the work pays as much, but not more, as the government handouts)

And no, the "welfare queen" statement isn't a "Republican Fantasy". It is reality. 3 and now 5 generations on welfare. Truth. If you believe otherwise then you don't interact with poor folks....Black and white and hispanic. Most people on welfare have a parent also on welfare. I work with 'em all the time.

If your gentleman friend could climb out of poverty and bring some of his family out as well, then that "shining city on the hill" isn't out of reach. No one said it was easy to get to, but it isn't out of reach. He got there, I got there.

So, if I am doing you a discourtesy by thinking that I have done more to bring folks out of poverty than you...How (besides paying your taxes and expecting the Federal Government and the States to give away more Free Shit) and who are you helping to change their lives for the better and helping them out of poverty?

Comrade Misfit said...

One thing of interest: Nobody ever brings up Social Security Disability Insurance, which in some areas, is being used by 30% of the workforce. Those areas tend to be depressed, rural and white.

If the Social Security Administration did a hard audit of the program, a hell of a lot of people would be kicked off. But there is no appetite for that from anyone.


B said...

I'd love to see an audit of ALL programs that give money or material goods to someone.

Hard audits with retroactive penalties. And criminal fraud charges for those who are cheating..

Then we can start on the farm subsidies and other programs like that.

CenterPuke88 said...

Condoms are, at best, 93% effective, abortions are being placed day out of reach of the poor, and teen/multiple early pregnancy is a key factor in poverty. These simple facts play into the narrative that actions in 1931 and before held communities of color down. The FHA redlined minorities out of housing loans thru the 1970's, and homes are a key element of generational wealth transfer. Those riots destroyed vibrant black businesses, and businesses are another key element of generational wealth transfer.

The average minority family has less than 1/17 the wealth of the average white family, aided and abetted over the last 400+ years by discriminatory policies intended to keep the minority communities poor and dependent. That is what makes it relevant.

As the Comrade suggests, welfare/entitlement abuse is not more prevelent on one side or the other. It is a basic fact, irrespective of color, and one side is conveniently ignored while the other side is demonized. The side being ignored is most often based upon the party complaining.

I did not suggest I had made more, nor did I denegrate your, efforts, I simply posit that having the mindset you espoused might have cause confirmational bias in your efforts.

B said...

Poverty is a frame of mind, as much as anything.

Seriously. Failure to plan for the future is a big reason many (not all!) of folks are "poor".

I work with and try to help some of these folks. Fast food instead of cooking, even though it costs more (and is less healthy) Buying expensive flashy clothes instead of good serviceable clothing. Expensive latest fashions. Drinks at the club, en though there is not enough cash for rent. (This isn't a race thing, blacks and whites do it in just about equal numbers. A worn out, unreliable car that has a set of $1500 rims and a $3k stereo.


Failure to plan ahead is a significant part of "Poverty".

You point about wealth accumulation is valid, but only to a certain extent. Most of that wealth if it is passed on, is squandered, not re-invested in any future.

After 2 or three generations, you can no longer blame the past actions of people for the present.

There are a LOT of middle class black people (but realize that I am not just discussing poor black people here, but poor people in general) that have built good wealth in 1 or two generations. They aren't poor. They succeed by having good practices and foresight. By not having children when they are 14 or 16. By forming families. By not having felonies so that they can get good paying jobs. By staying out of prison. By learning a skill, or getting an education. By raising good children in a family, not by fathering children and abandoning them to the females to raise, poorly. This applies to whites as well as blacks and hispanics.

There are many factors in poverty. Culture is a large part.Past actions of society is a small part. Failure to place the blame on the present actions of people and instead blaming everyone else for actions a hundred years ago however, is not fixing the issue of the present. If you are a "minority" with any skills, there are opportunities for you that are not available for whites. If you don't have a criminal record and can pass a drug test....If.

Again, much "poverty" is mindset. Choices we make. Planning for the future.

And that is lacking in a great portion of our population, no matter what the race.

I work with them every day. Sometimes, I actually help people.