As you may know by now, the elements of the Christian Taliban within the GOP almost succeeded in shutting down the Federal government over the issue of abortion.
I believe that the issue of abortion has very little to do with the unborn child and has everything to do with sin.
But now, it should be plain to everyone that the self-identified "social conservatives," the people I refer to as the Christian Taliban, really do not believe that "all life is sacred". The Christian Taliban's adherents overwhelmingly support execution. Not only do they support it, they would like to see capital offenses broadened. For example, I have no doubt that they regard blasphemy as a capital crime, but they keep their mouths shut about it. Not so much about gays, it's not hard to find public statements by the Christian Taliban calling for gays to be executed.
The Christian Taliban's indifference to life goes far beyond that, of course. If they truly cared about the lives of others, you might assume that they would be all in favor of making health care affordable to all. You might assume that they would be in favor of early education programs, such as Head Start. You might assume that they would want to make education as rich and as vibrant an experience for children as possible.
You might assume all that. You would be wrong to do so.
If the Christian Taliban cared about the unborn, you might assume that they would push to make prenatal care available to all mothers. You might assume that they would work to establish programs for prenatal nutrition. You might assume that they would lobby for courses for new mothers on how to care for their children.
You might assume all that. You would be wrong to do so.
The fight over abortion has nothing to do with the babies being aborted, although that is how it has been sold to the sheeple who comprise the grunts of the Christian Taliban. It has everything to do with sin, more specifically, the punishment of sin. The Christian Taliban regards having sexual intercourse for any reason other than baby-making to be a major sin. (For that matter, the Christian Taliban regards having fun as a sin.) If a woman has sex for fun and ends up getting pregnant, than as far as the Christian Taliban is concerned, both the ensuing pregnancy and the years of caring for the child to follow are the Lord's punishment for her immorality.
You might have noticed that the man gets off scot-free, for he just skates away and does not have to participate in the child-rearing. There is a tendency in religions to regard men as weak-minded, emotionally-retarded individuals who cannot be blamed if they act on their baser impulses. That is why the push for modesty in clothing, from attempts to legislate skirt length or prohibitions against married women showing their hair to the hajib and the burka are found across religions.
But I digress.
The concept that "sex for fun is punishable by death" was also seen in the Christian Taliban's active opposition to any spending for AIDS research and prevention, at least until the disease crossed over into the general population. Only then was there interest on their part in funding research. Until then, they were just fine with the idea of a "gay plague".
It goes beyond sex, of course. There have been studies done which show that needle exchange programs do not increase the number of drug users, but they do reduce the transmission of diseases between drug users. The Christian Taliban adamantly opposes needle exchange programs, for they want drug users to die from diseases as punishment for their sins.
The anti-choice crowd doesn't give a damn about the children. What they do want to see is the mothers punished by having to bear, give birth to, and care for those children. Whether or not those children are born into lives of poverty and crime is not their concern. Their only concern for poor children is ensuring that fewer and fewer social services are available and that they have fewer and fewer opportunities to escape lives of poverty. For the Christian Taliban is all about ensuring that the children pay for the sins of the parents.
All this is why I maintain that the fight over abortion has nothing at all to do with the lives of the fetuses.
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25 comments:
Applause! Applause! Standing ovation!
Well said. It's one of my favorite soapboxes, and I have nothing to add.
(this from a minimalist Christian who's comfortable with the concept of Christ's divinity, but skeptical of the Church's limiting definition of said divinity.)
It's too bad that your mind is so narrow that you cannot understand that reasonable people can think that abortion is murder. I think it is the equivalent of someone murdering you. I am also completely against the death penalty. I equate all three.
You are wrong about Christians not providing assistance to unborn babies. Before the federal government started paying for just about everything from womb-to-tomb, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, and other religious-affiliated hospitals gave charitable pre and post natal care to mothers who couldn't afford it.
I have made my point without calling you a single name. Why cannot you effectively argue your position without using the Taliban metaphor?
The Radical Extremists have made Misogyny a core value of the Republican/Teabaggers. One more reason to make every effort possible to destroy them.
John, be told a few times (to your face) times that you're an evil spawn who will burn in hell because you're gay.
Read over and over that you should be put to death because of who you love.
Hear for decades that you will rot in hell because you don't believe in the same way as others do.
When that has happened to you for decades, come check in with me.
I make no apologies.
Let me be one who tells you that God loves us all-not one more than the other. Although I do not know you, I extend that love as well. As Christians, we know that everyone is imperfect. I certainly cannot, and will not, throw self-righteous rocks at you or any other.
Umm, John, all of the "reasonable" Christians I know are considered by the Christian Church to be heathens and radicals . There is almost nothing reasonable in Christian doctrine that cannot be found in simple ethics, no faith required. Christianity in this country is absolutely DOMINATED by hate- and fear-mongering oppressors. Every "us" needs a "them," and Christianity currently hates its "them" every bit as much as does the Taliban. If Christians would put their namesake above the prophets, they wouldn't be spending billions of dollars stomping on their so-called enemies. Like disobedient women.
I am soooo linking to this and providing a sample.
Also, guess what just played on the radio?
John, I have had a lot of experience with the other kind of Christians, he kind who are happy to tell me how I will experience eternal damnation unless I fear their particular variant of Gid and worship at their sect of a church. I set a menorah in my window one year and had flyers put on my car's windshield for over a month until I caught the person doing it.
I have had my share of experience with the "G-d hates your kind" brand of Christianity.
As my bother-in-law pointed out... Right to life is not an accurate description. Right to birth is.
I would not be surprised if Jesus worshipers complete loathe the two clauses in the Constitution that effectively prevents them from having their theocracy ala Iran, Afghanistan, ...
"I would not be surprised if Jesus worshipers complete loathe the two clauses in the Constitution that effectively prevents them from having their theocracy ala Iran, Afghanistan, ..."
To the contrary. It is against Biblical principles to try to force someone to believe in God.
Tell it to Mike Huckabee.
Tell it to the people who are still pissed because the Supreme Court said that it was not legal to make school children recite the Lord's Prayer.
"To the contrary. It is against Biblical principles to try to force someone to believe in God."
- Try telling that to the scores of Bible thumpers who infested my college campus, harassing everyone constantly, trying to get me to come to church even after I repeatedly - and politely - told them no.
- Try telling that to the leaders of the Catholic school where I went for 8 years, where they would penalize your GPA if you didn't come to church every Sunday. And how would they tell if you were there? By the names on the envelopes in the tithing dish. The only message I got was, "If you don't give money, you're not worth our time."
- Try telling that to my Jehovah's Witness mother-in-law, with which every single conversation over the past 11 years has become an advertisement for God.
I'm a good person. My wife is a good person. The Bible's general themes are sound, but their corruption through man-made regulations, selective application of those themes, and towering bureaucracy have left us forever sick of organized religion.
Believe it or not, you can be religious without adhering to a single faith's structure.
Don't need no stinkin church to know what's right and wrong.
Organized religion is all about power and control, nothing more.
I personally reserve my hate to those that piss me off. Till then, I like em all equally.
Tam you are correct IMHO that there really is no difference between the Islamic and Christian Taliban. Both try to force that which is not meant to be forced.
S'cuse me meant everthin except the Tam , brain fade ya no, wrong blog.
Course then again, maybe not...
My sister Tam is gay and I wish everyone was as nice...
John
I was made to attend church and bible study till I was 12. That's when I stated, I have read the entire bible. Twice. And it's bullshit and I'm not wasting my time any more. To ensure that youthful blinders hadn't caused me to rebel but that I had actually studied the issues, I continued to study religion. Over the ensuing years I have studied numerous religions and have noticed one theme among all of them. They are all bullshit.
Now you are not going to like my take on religion and that's OK. Because as long as you keep your religion out of my life I could give a crap less what you believe. But you can't do that and neither can any other christian religions. Because part of the religion is making sure that everyone around you agrees with you and therefore builds strength in numbers. Well I'm not going to do that for you. I took a multi-year intelligent look at religion and found that I was right at 12.
Christian Taliban? Yea that's spot on. So just in case you don't get it I'll make it plain: Get your religion the fuck out of my life. And the lives of all the people who have their eyes and minds open.
Spud, if you've mistaken me for this Tam, I imagine she'd not be too pleased.
I want to add the members of the Christian Taliban to my blacklist.
As for Spud confusing you and Ms. Keel, well, I kind of think you two are like opposite sides of the same coin.
Naw, no confusion, my brain was a little behind what the fingers were typing, didn't proof read before sending.
Wouldn't be the first time I've stated things that didn't agree with that other party.
Really was looking for that edit feature right after sending lol
Unlike a lot of folks I read all, Left, Right & Middle sumtimes my puny little brain gets confused...
When someone tells me what to do with my body, they have gone that proverbial bit too far and hit my nose.
Until people realize that they are trying controlling another persons body but not assuming full responsibility for the outcome, I call bullshit.
Religion is not a reason it's an excuse.
Eck!
"To the contrary. It is against Biblical principles to try to force someone to believe in God."
Umm... sure. While it might be a principle to not force, practice is a whole different matter. Why is it then that several states have or had laws against certain types of sex? Why is it I cannot buy alcohol on Sunday? Why was it that Muslims are not allow to build mosques without a controversy?
These are examples of where so-called Christians are forcing their beliefs on the general populace. If it wasn't for the fact the the Constitution disallows the creation of a state religion and that it is forbidden to require politicians to be of a certain faith; things would have been much more extreme than they are now.
Oh, where to start? Well I grew up in the near South, in Lousiville, KY, the home of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, once somewhat progressive, now Paleozoic.
I saw repeatedly that the louder people profess their faith, invariably the more snakes were in the closet (it's called externalization in psychology).
I saw a quarter of the nation where evangelistic Christianity had been the dominant religion for at least 200 years and yet there was first slavery, then bigotry and hatred, the subjugation and mistreatment of women. Please: That's the fruit of the tree, and any sane impartial human being would have to call it evil. Where's the state with the lowest rate of divorce? The same that first allowed gay marriages, Massachusetts.
I do NOT claim that there are no walking humble Christians in the South, I just assert that much evangelistic Christianity is all about casting out the mote in your brother's eye, about using the Get Out Of Sin Free card, about never really confronting the mote in your own eye.
The truly righteous and humble Right would be challenging the psycchopaths in the Christian Right and the Tea Party, trying to clean their own house.
EB, best thread ever!!!
As a man, I believe no man, under no circumstance has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. I do not foist my belief on anyone else, AND I do not allow anyone to try and foist their opinions on me.
As for religion, I was raised a baptist and all I remember about the sermons were "The flock is not contributing enough to the church" week after week.
I despise hypocracy in every shape or form, whether its a corrupt police force determining what laws to enforce and what infractions to a let slide, to clergy who preach the evils of sin and hold me to a high standard of morality only to find their left hand is dipping in the till and their right hand is dipping in some alter boys pants.
What it comes down to is control. Those who want to control others do not do so out of some altruistic desire, but of some sociopathic need.
Ergo, all persons in power, or desire power over others are not fit psychologicaly for the job and should be disqualified.
Oh, before I forget, John Milton, those who accuse others of having a narrow mind invariablycannot suffer to have anothers persons opinion differ from their own. Open mindedness is poison to them.....Allan
In all my 60 years I have not seen a better description of the "rtl" movement, nor of the xristian faith.
What I have done over the last few years when xristian sheeple push me to "join" their church is to tell them that I am Buddhist then watch their brains freeze. It has provided me no end of amusement
Having just discovered your blog-via C&L-I am adding you to my favorites list and will be perusing your blog daily.
Thanks for the great addition to my reading list
"To the contrary. It is against Biblical principles to try to force someone to believe in God."
The bible itself contradicts that. Here is a partial list directing you to verses regarding how to treat nonbelievers. For brevity's sake, I have not included the actual text of the verses, but just the references. The actual wording of thee verses may differ depending on which translation you use.
Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8
Judge other religions for not following Christ:
Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22
Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7
Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12
False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9
Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10
A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33
Eric: Holy smoley! That's impressive!
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