Words of Advice:

"If Something Seems To Be Too Good To Be True, It's Best To Shoot It, Just In Case." -- Fiona Glenanne

"Flying the Airplane is More Important than Radioing Your Plight to a Person on the Ground
Who is Incapable of Understanding or Doing Anything About It." -- Unknown

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level
and then beat you with experience.” -- Mark Twain

"Colt .45s; putting bad guys underground since 1873." -- Unknown

"Stay Strapped or Get Clapped." -- probably not Mr. Rogers

"Let’s eat all of these people!” — Venom

"Eck!" -- George the Cat

Tuesday, July 6, 2021

Jim Crow 2.0

The NY Times has a story today about how the Republicans in western states are rewriting their election laws to make it much harder for Native Americans to vote. The Supremes recently upheld those efforts, in part, because the lawyer arguing the case for the GOP stated honestly that their intention is to make it harder for minorities to vote.

Meanwhile, more and more Republicans are openly advocating white-sheet-wearing policies. Paul Gosar is one. The Congress's pre-eminent Trum toady, Kevin McCarthy, lacks the spine to do anything.

The Repubicans are making a bet that they can relitigate the 2020 election next year. Given that the election last year was a referendum on The Tangerine Tyrant, that would seem to be a foolish maneuver.

31 comments:

B said...

So ballot harvesting is a Good Idea? Really?

Having to vote in the district or precinct where one lives rather than anywhere (like somewhere where you can't be verified as eligible) is a Bad Idea?

Almost as if you are trying to make fraud easier.
One would think a patriotic American would want to keep the integrity of our elections sacrosanct....unless one knew that fraud would benefit her party...and was willing to give up her integrity to see her candidate elected.
I would never think that of you....I believe you have morals and character.
Or am I missing something?

Dark Avenger said...

A parking ticket has more particulars of when, where, and what car violated a parking ordinance, and yet you cannot specify where all this voter fraud took place last year.

B said...

Nice deflection.
Do you support clean elections, denounce voter fraud, or not?
Yes or No?

DTWND said...

Yes I do. But all the documented and PROVEN fraud cases during the 2018 and 2020 elections were committed by Republicans. And you believe that the Republican driven legislation will 'fix' the problem? Or will it limit voters and make it easier to manipulate future elections?

You keep coming up with these weak arguments. There is no proof that voting machines were rigged. No proof of throwing away ballots. No proof of ballot counters leaving ballots unsecured. NONE. Only the allegations put forth by TFG, his lackys, Fox News, and those that refuse to abide by fair elections because 'their guy' lost.

Where's your facts? Or don't they matter?

Your twisted logic follows the old "Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no?" argument. You begin with a premise then imagine and create scenarios to affirm your pre-conceived ideas. Then you act as if what you say is the truth.

Whatever credibility you had is slipping away rapidly. Bring facts that are verifiable and not just regurgitated stories from all the right leaning sources that circle jerk each other.

Or just keep making shit up to fit your agenda.

Dale

dinthebeast said...

"Ballot harvesting" is a meaningless trigger word designed to get the morons all het up, like CRT, Marxism, and any number of other words bandied around by lie addicts who have no clue as to their meaning, but have been assured by their favorite propagandist are pure evil that must be stopped at all costs.
The truth is that today's GOP won't support any candidate for public office unless they pledge to use whatever power they may acquire there to overturn any election the GOP isn't happy with (see also: James Lankford).
Mail in voting is the wave of the future. It is secure, inclusive, and allows for more time to be spent at one's leisure making the best choices one can manage for each individual item on the ballot.
I've been doing it since 2010.
And yes, it is secure, requires an ID to register for and signature matches and the works.
If Republicans could win fair elections when everyone eligible actually voted, they would not just support mail in ballots, they would demand them.
But as they tend to lose elections when everyone eligible votes, they are scared shitless of mail in ballots, and make up all manner of lies to discredit them.
And don't even get me started on the laws they are passing that give state legislatures, which they have the most control over of any aspect of government, the power to overturn the results of elections they lost.
Parties legislating in good faith don't do shit like that, full stop.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Comrade Misfit said...

You are throwing bullshit, B. All of these laws are being enacted for two reasons: To hinder voting by minorities and to appease Trump. There were no verified instances of massive voter fraud by Democrats.

You are making high-minded arguments to cover a a discriminatory intent. Those arguments are no different from the arguments for literacy tests that were used by the former Confederate states.

I expected better from you than to find you fervently backing racist voting laws.

Ten Bears said...

The projection runs deep here, need my rubber boots ...

Eck! said...

B,

You could do better if you remove the hand from your back
that makes you write their things and say their words.

Over 60 cases presented to courts never proved or even
vaguely supported the allegation of voter fraud. The
lies were so deep that at least one lawyer is no debarred.

So until you produce something factual and verifiable
that might pass as evidence of Voter fraud or irregularities
you really are saying nothing we can use, test, or
fact check.

As to the laws, those are jimmy cruze 2.0. They created
a lie to enact laws that on the surface one thing and
under that surface its the same old voter suppression crap.

Eck!

Eck! said...

TB,

for that the boots need to be hipwaders, and include
a raincoat, bs repellent hat, and a gas mask.

Grashopper, the poo runs deep.



Eck!

B said...

And in places where Biden won so handily, they chose NOT to do signature matching on those Mail-in Ballots. nor were they requiring the matching envelope. Yes, it happened. Look it up. Google is your friend.

Ballot harvesting is where someone collects ballots from people and brings them to the polling place...not that that could lead to fraud or anything.

Mail in voting is great in concept, but only if properly implemented. Oregon does it well, other states just mailed ballots to everyone. If you could get your partisan glasses cleaned you'd see the difference.
Odd how the Feds and the DNC are trying so hard to squelch the actual audist being done in AZ and other places, innit?

You can decry my statements all you wish. Nearly everyone, democrat or republican, white or black suspects fraud. We all know. This time, it benefitted your side so you play the bullshit pipe and accept it. If you want honest elections, you'll stop claiming that black people somehow can't figure out how to find a polling place and vote, or that having an ID is somehow and undue burdedn when it is required for nearly any other activity...(Hint: Black and brown people are as smart as us white people, and as capable, so stop with the soft racism that claims they somehow can't do what whites do, MMkay?)
Comparing a requirement for having an ID (which is required for a bank account, airline travel, owning a car, or getting your vaunted Covid shot) to the literacy test of a hundred years ago is disingenuous at best, lying at worst. Try again.
If you claim there was no fraud, or that measures to reduce fraud are somehow hurting minorities by requiring an ID to obtain a ballot, your are lying, both to yourself and to others. More importantly, your are sacrificing your integrity.

DTWND said...

Aaand more lies, half truths, and falsehoods. I looked it up and…. nope. No “places that Biden won so handily” have evidence of illegalities. That’s lie number one.

Mail-in ballots here in Michigan are double sealed with a signature on the outer envelope. So even if ballots are collected, the signatures must match those on file to be counted. Half truth number two.

As to the Dems and the Feds opposing the “audist” (sic), could it possibly be due to the group the AZ Republicans first hired (Cyber Ninjas) had no prior experience in an election audit. That’s a falsehood by not using all the facts in claiming your position.

Another falsehood: “ Nearly everyone, democrat or republican, white or black suspects fraud. We all know.”. Nope. No way ‘nearly everbody’ belives that. Perhaps nearly every right leaning Republican does, but NOT everyone.

More lies: NO one that comments on this blog has EVER claimed that black people cannot find a polling place or get an ID. But some HAVE claimed that the laws, both proposed and enacted, would make it more difficult for ALL minorities to exercise their right to vote. You making the statement referring to black Americans speaks volumes about YOUR disposition.

All told, your response, while trying to stake your position as one of integrity, fails miserably. It just reinforces the arguments that oppose your factless and unsubstantiated assertions that you regurgitate from all your right leaning “news” sites.

You are not only lying to others but you’re lying to yourself. The next time you take a position with facts backing you up will be the first time.

Dale

dinthebeast said...

Well, it's just more slithering away from the suppression tactics the goddamn GOP feels it needs to enact if it is ever gonna win another national election.
Voter ID? I had to have an ID to get registered in California.
The GOP specifically targets constituencies that vote against them and makes it harder for them to vote.
Will every student who can't use their student ID to vote be turned away from casting a ballot? No. Will enough of them be turned away to make a difference in the election outcome? That's what the goddamn GOP is counting on.
The Democrats have their problems, like any functional political party, but they are not waging an out and out campaign against democracy like the goddamn GOP is right now.
And if there was massive voter fraud, how come Fergus with the full force of the US government couldn't find any of it? Like zero. Like sixty or so cases thrown out of court for foolishness and lack of evidence.
You'd think that with such a compliant DOJ they could have found some fraud if there actually was any.
Voter fraud is and always has been a bogus excuse to make it harder for Democratic leaning constituencies to vote, and fueled by the goddamn Big Lie, the GOP is on a fucking tear making it harder to vote. More than 300 bills in more than thirty states, none of which had any problems with their elections even during a goddamn pandemic.
They hate democracy, and are engaged in snuffing it out, all because their policies, if you can even call them that, are so unpopular that they have to resort to bitching about Potato Head dolls and Dr. Seuss, when real voters are more concerned about living through a deadly virus and having health care, and clean air and water and roads to drive on and all of the things the goddamn GOP just doesn't bother with any more.
And by the way, I never had to show my ID to get my covid shot, so perhaps you are a bit deluded about your facts here. I registered online and got my shot at the local CVS. Took about ten minutes and I was done.
And ballot harvesting? You mean taking folks' who aren't that mobile and turning their ballots in for them? Heaven forbid.
Next thing you know they'll be taking all of the ballots cast and pawing through them with Kinematic Artifact Detectors and UV lights to look for bamboo and jacking around with the voting hardware until it can't be used again and must be replaced by the county... in every state with a Republican majority in their state legislature until the fundraising runs dry.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Comrade Misfit said...

Oh, bullshit, B. Billy Barr's DoJ looked into fraud and found nothing. Trump's crack team of lawyers filed lawsuit after lawsuit and they were not able to substantiate any fraud. Rudy tried to claim fraud but ran afoul of the provisions in civil procedure that fraud has to be pled with specificity, which he could not do.

All your side has is wild, unsubstantiated allegations that the Republicans are bruiting about to justify their true motive: Keep minorities and poor people from voting.

It is Jim Crow 2.0 no matter how you try to dress it up, B.

Eck! said...

B,

Think for your self. Its a new thing, but try it.

Everytime you allege something it always a known non-fact
or half lie. Its 8 months past tired.

You and Drumpf, your both lost the battle and loosing all
but the fervent believers or the Q soaked idiots.

As they say... The circus is in town and has not left.


Eck!

B said...

Try taking off those (extremely) partisan rose colored glasses and regain your integrity folks.

As per DTWND's inability to find any polls like this one show the either he is lying or that he didn't try that hard (or at all):

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/june_2021/55_of_voters_support_election_audits

And the illegalities (or evidence thereof) was in Detroit, Philadelphia, and Atlanta. Again, you can find the data if you try to actually, look for it. Il;ve shown that yuo are either a liar or an incompetent when it comes to using a search engine, so try harder....
And as for your statment about no one ever claiming having an Id as a requirement ...well, again, either you are a liar or have a very selective memory.

So, Dinthebeast, How does the GOP "specifically targets constituencies that vote against them and makes it harder for them to vote"? It can;t be ebcause of an ID reqirement...Dale has said so just above your comment. No ne has ever said that. What other requirements are they tasking that are targeted against blacks and other minorities? As for there not being any evidence of voter fraud...Remember, there was never any examination by any outside parties BECUSE there was not any evidence for the courts to force one. No audits of Detroit or PPhiladelphia or Pittsburg were done by anyone outside of the DNC led election boards because the courrts would not force one...so a slef fulfilling prophecy. It was Atlanta and Detroit where the election administration decided to allow thousands of an=bsentee and mail in votes without their encelotes nor with verified signatures. (hint: don't ask Dale to help you find this data).

Eck: you ask me to :think for myself" but can you do it? Your comments ahve shown that you simply follow the party line.

My dear hostess: How is integrity in our elections Jim Crow 2.0? Having to have an ID to get a ballot? Please explain how this is a hardship for anyone? If this is racist then why is it not racist to have to have an ID for the COvid Jab? For a bank account?


B said...

Oh, and here is another poll showing that the majority of people don;t thing that voter ID laws discriminate:

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/april_2021/election_integrity_62_don_t_think_voter_id_laws_discriminate

"majorities of all racial groups – 64% of whites, 59% of Blacks and 58% of other minority voters – reject the claim that voter ID laws discriminate against some voters"
Lots of data there, if you bother to read it.

Y'all need to stop parrtoting the DNC meme-of-the-Day and start looking and thinking independantly.

DTWND said...

B, you once privately e-mailed me with the request that I not use your full name while posting. I said I would not ever again do that and I haven’t. So don’t question my integrity. But once again, you come up with more lies, falsehoods, and half truths. You continue the cherry picking with regurgitation from Republican leaning sites that support your pre-conceived notions.

“ The accuracy of Rasmussen's polling has varied considerably in recent U.S. presidential elections (2000–2016). Some poll watchers, including Patrick Caddell, have lauded Rasmussen Reports, while others, such as Chris Cillizza, have questioned its accuracy. FiveThirtyEight gave the firm a "C+" rating, reporting it had a 3.9-point bias in favor of Republican candidates in the 2010 midterm election.”

Perhaps I should have been more specific. No INDEPENDENT sources could be found that support your assertions. Only sites that support TFG’s big lie make the assertion of EVERYONE KNOWS there was fraud and manipulation of the 2020 election. So where’s the proof? Only allegations without supporting evidence. No cases have been resolved in favor of your claims. So you’re lying again about that.

Perhaps you should understand the concept of ‘data’ as opposed to ‘proof’. There are hundreds of sites that have ‘data’ claiming there was fraud in the election process. These many sources point to Detroit and Philadelphia as evidence, as you stated. But NONE of these sites have ‘proof’. Just claims, assertions, third party statements, and rumors. And many of these sources reference other sources making the same claims in a circle-jerk of ‘reporting’ that has no basis in facts.

And you just shot down your own assertions with your statement, and I quote, “As for there not being any evidence of voter fraud... Remember, there was never any examination by any outside parties BECUSE there was not any evidence for the courts to force one.” Exactly! Freudian slip? Or did you finally come to the realization that FOX, Breitbart, and Q are not telling you the truth?

You should take your own advice and stop parroting the Republican theme of the year and start thinking independently. Sometimes you are so full of shit your eyes are turning brown.

Dale

dinthebeast said...

B, the best example of the specific targeting Democratic voters with their draconian regulations would be the repeated attempts in southern states to not allow early voting on Sundays, when Black churches traditionally hold their "souls to the polls" efforts, but you fucking know that and there really isn't any point in discussing this with you as you are completely impervious to any informat5ion that contradicts your propaganda.
They have over 300 of these bills pending right now. It's an assault on democracy.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

B said...

Dale: Really? Since no one could conclusively prove the voter fraud without an investigation, and without proof the courts would not force an investigation shows me wrong?

Here's the thing. No one investigated because no one could get the courts to force an audit, without which ther could be no proof of fraud. THat's the argument that was used to deny the recounts.
As for the rest, I find it interesting that you refute any polls or other sources that don't agree with you, yet you accept proven biased sources like Snopes and their ilk.
THe poolls are not lies, their methodology is sound, and if you wish to refute Rasmussen's work, then find something to prove them wrong.
Perhaps you should learn the difference between data and proof. there is no Proof because no one looked for it. IN fact, when AZ thried to find proof, the Feds and the DNC did their best to block it. Data is things like the statistical impossibilities in the ballot counts and the fact that rules were relaxed in precincts to allow votes that under the stat regulations should ahve been thorown out....and other data is the statistically unliekihood of 100% of votes counted pafter 1lPM went for Biden, and other such oddities. That is Data. Proof is what we might (and now we will never know) if the conclusions to the data had been investigated. You really shouldn't try to tell me the difference, I was a researcher.

DintheBeast: That is the best "Draconian" regulation for voter suppression you can come up with? Not being able to vote early on Sunday when the Preacher leds you to the polls during church? THat is draconian" voter suppression? I thought you'd come up with Real Jim Crow stuff, not a minor inconveneience like that. THose Po Black Folks must really be struggling with that restriction. (Pretty much soft Racism if you think that that is what will keep 'em from voting....or do you think they can only be enticed to vote by a preacher on Sundays and the rest of the time they are too stupid or lazy to do so unless led?).

dinthebeast said...

You're lying again. The goddamn Arizona "audit" taking place right now as a fundraising operation for Fergus and the GOP by "Cyberninjas" who have just rendered the voting machinery there unusable and in need of multimillion dollar replacement by the county was done after multiple audits and recounts by credible and certified people.
In Michigan, the Republican controlled state senate investigated the claims of voter fraud and determined they were so fraudulent that they referred them to the state AG for prosecution. That is, the people claiming voter fraud were referred for prosecution for grifting off of the obvious lies.
Obvious lies.
Investigated again and again by the Fergus administration who was still in power at the time.
If Bill Barr couldn't find any fraud with the resources of the goddamn DOJ and the urging of the president who he perverted the DOJ in the service of over and over, then there wasn't any goddamned fraud, because if there was any, they would have used it to try and keep Fergus in office.
The souls to the polls bit was just the first thing I had off of the top of my head, but if you care to actually learn about targeted voter suppression, check out the North Carolina attempts at redistricting, which a judge said "targeted Black voters with almost surgical precision", but, again, there are currently over 300 voter suppression bills being brought by Republican state legislatures, all fueled by the same goddamn lie that got the capitol attacked for the first time since the war of 1812, that Fergus announced before he lost that he would do when he lost, as even Fergus wasn't stupid enough to believe he would win.
But so many of his supporters are that stupid that they still pose a security risk for lawmakers who don't support the obvious lie.
So when can we stop with the goddamn obvious lie? What will it take to get those infinitely reprogrammable meatbags to grow thumbs and climb down out of the stupid tree? Because until they do, the country is just this side of being ungovernable, which I have to assume is their intention in the first place.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

B said...

INteresting that you claim that I am "Goddamn Lying" but you provide no cites for proof, nor any other evidence. Yer obviously emotional about this rather than rational.
Calm down there.
You are the one that lectured me about "proof". Where is yours? Or are your rules different for Liberal folks like you vs rational folks like me?

Comrade Misfit said...

Everyone: Lower the temperature of your comments or I will lock this discussion.

Consider this a global Yellow Card.

Eck! said...

B,

You accuse me of the party line so what party is that other than NOT
the Radical Right Q-folk. I've been unaffiliated my entire life and
vote on qualifications, not party.

Seriously, you operate in the partisan big lie world. So anything
you say is an insult to people that don't subscribe to the propaganda,
Qanon, the GQP party line. Everything Faux and other right wing
propaganda outlets says it party line and usually false, untrue, or
the occasional misrepresented and fragmented truth that is out
of context and still mostly a lie.

Its unfair to accuse you of lying, you really believe that crap.
So to you its not a lie. Terribly sad thing. So when you say
something its a rare exception it is not word for word GQP party
line and therefore easily verified for its BS content.

So in short, you claim truth, and back that with lies or worse
other people lies.


Eck!

dinthebeast said...

https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_8b1382ba-4b0e-4d9c-b933-adcbced94e98

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Eck! said...

Doug,

One of many sites that agree with my ears, eyes, and memory.
Then again I deal in proveable things, facts, and observations
of know truths. Life in engineering teaches one that facts,
physics, and testing or your building falls down during the
night.

Its tough to deal with someone that believes with all
their heart that what their eyes, ears, and memories have
observed are just hallucinations. Yet they fully embrace
something totally insane fed to them by pathological
people with a self serving agenda.

My mom had a retort for that... If they jump off a bridge,
would you?


Eck!

Comrade Misfit said...

Eck, see tomorrow’s humor post.

B said...

Nice...a reputable pollsing agency that shows it's work isn't a valid dource, but a CNN opinion piece is a valid refutation. Cnn, that News agency that is as trusted as Baghdad Bob. I get it, it is valis because it is what you believe.

Were our positions reversed you'd be telling me to do better than that.

Yer slipping. Badly. (and this isn't a poke at you to make you angry, just an observation)

Dark Avenger said...

Here's the thing. No one investigated because no one could get the courts to force an audit, without which ther could be no proof of fraud.

Nobody showed grounds on which to have an audit in the first place. Nobody would or could go on the record regarding specific allegations

https://misenategopcdn.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/99/doccuments/20210623/SMPO_2020ElectionReport.pdf


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/michigan-republicans-eviscerate-trump-voter-fraud-claims-scathing-report-n1272116

In a highly anticipated report released Wednesday, the Republican-led Michigan Senate Oversight Committee rebutted former President Donald Trump's voter fraud claims, debunking allegations of malfeasance in the state's election last fall and affirming that Joe Biden was victorious.

The report is the product of an eight-month inquiry and concludes there was no basis or evidence to support the Trump campaign's repeated claims that the election results failed to reflect the will of the voters.

"As is often the case, the truth is not as attractive or as immediately desirable as the lies and the lies contain elements of truth," state Sen. Ed McBroom, the Republican chairman of the committee that investigated the election, said in a statement that accompanied the report. "We must all remember: 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof' and 'claiming to find something extraordinary requires first eliminating the ordinary.'"

The report, which was supported by every Republican on the committee, was clear: "This Committee found no evidence of widespread or systematic fraud in Michigan’s prosecution of the 2020 election."

Biden won Michigan by 154,000 votes, a 3 percentage-point victory over Trump. The election results had already been affirmed by court rulings, state canvassers and earlier audits completed by the Michigan secretary of state.

McBroom said he feels confident the state's results were accurate following his review, though he has continued to offer support for Republican-led voting law changes. McBroom said many of the claims of malfeasance were the result of "a misunderstanding or an outright deception."

"Also, sources must lose credibility when it is shown they promote falsehoods, even more when they never take accountability for those falsehoods," he said. "At this point, I feel confident to assert the results of the Michigan election are accurately represented by the certified and audited results."

The report singled out the false claims of fraud in Antrim County, a small county in the northern part of the state where human error by election officials initially led to results showing Biden winning the county. The error was quickly corrected, and the certified results showed a substantial Trump victory there. But the rectified error has fueled false claims of fraud in the state.

Who got to the Michigan Republicans, B? Cui bono?

Was it

Hunter Biden

The Chinese Communist Central Committee

Nanci Pelosi

The vengeful spirit of Paul Tsongas

dinthebeast said...

"In Michigan, the Republican controlled state senate investigated the claims of voter fraud and determined they were so fraudulent that they referred them to the state AG for prosecution. That is, the people claiming voter fraud were referred for prosecution for grifting off of the obvious lies.
Obvious lies."
That's how I described the Michigan report in my above comment.
I don't owe anyone term paper format. The shit I say is real to the best of my knowledge, and is backed up by enough sourcing to have convinced me of it's veracity, or else I say otherwise.

-Doug in Sugar Pine

Eck! said...

Its better locked...

The flail of the true believer is strong. To call on
it or otherwise refute it is not productive for that
reason.



Eck!

Comrade Misfit said...

So be it.