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12 comments:
Actually, the ones getting "robbed" are drug dealers or money mules for the dealers. The Drug Interdiction guys are finding these cards loaded up with thousands or tens of thousands of dollars now because the cash keeps getting seized, as it should. These interdiction guys know what they're doing and the system has safeguards to protect innocent parties, none of whom are losing their money anyway. It's just the bad guys taking the hit, and I support fully. Go, Oklahoma!
Not just the bad guys. There's been ample coverage of that.
They want to take people's stuff, the burden of proof should be on them. Not the other way around.
Highway men with badges.
Comrade, it's nice to see you on the right side of the issue.
Here ya go Murphy: Protect and Serve. How's that Choclodyte City working for you?
lolo
later friends,
-Moe
Murphy,
Here you go:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-17/police-civil-asset-forfeitures-exceed-value-all-burglaries-2014
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/american-cops-steal-property-burglars-combined/
This is a really pathetic position for LEO's to be caught in.
Sorry Will, but the reality is that these seizures stem from good police officers doing good police work and kicking bad guys in the junk. The assets they take are almost always the proceeds of crimes or money being used to facilitate crimes and it's an age-old American ideal that bad guys don't get to profit from their crimes. The forfeiture program has plenty of safeguards and oversight and the officers doing the seizing have some pretty specialized training AND there is judicial oversight in the form of hearings for anything seized--there's nothing wrong or shady about it no matter what a few libertarian types or pro-criminal liberals say. It fights crime and hits bad guys where they live--in the pocket.
Except when they fuck up and take money from innocent people who they don't like the look of, and leave them with no resources to attempt to regain their money, let alone continue with whatever they were doing in the first place. They tried this kind of bullshit here in Oakland, so I know for a fact that it is not nearly as tightly regulated as you claim. They were seizing people's vehicles and selling them with no requirement that the "suspects" be convicted or even CHARGED with a crime at all. They called it the "beat feet" ordinance, and it was targeted toward drug trafficking and prostitution, but was abused right out of the gate, officially stole hundreds of vehicles (some from people I know, so I know the real stories, not just some BS I read and believed) and was finally stopped by the State Supreme Court in 2007, I believe. A lot of it was just the inability to collect enough tax to fund local government and law enforcement, so they resort to "other measures" to get what they want. Poor people without the resources to replace their stolen cars were hurt the worst, but that's the case pretty much across the board in the US.
-Doug in Oakland
Doug, that was ten years ago...and in Oakland, no less. A lot has changed since then.
Right, Murphy...and east Texas and Oklahoma sheriffs are leading the charge by confiscation of any cash or cards you have if they stop you and don't like the way you look. You, Sir, are still living in a bubble...try reality.
A lot has changed since then.
Not really.
Murphy,
It's been a few years since I've seen the actual figure reported, but, IIRC, the AVERAGE take in those seizures is $5000. Virtually no one is stupid enough to try to take that case to court, since the attorney fees would cost much more, mostly due to the ability of the .gov to drag the case out to extreme time frames.
In fact, the .gov seldom gets away with huge dollar seizures from actual drug/criminal types, since they HAVE the means to fight it in court. THAT was a disappointing disclosure when it came to light.
For them, the .gov ends up having to convict them of the crime, before they get to keep that money.
The fact is, when you give government agents a direct departmental stake in taking things away from the public, they will be very enthusiastic about doing it. This is human nature. It's really nothing more than .gov sanctioned theft, by people bearing guns.
This problem is just one more way the police groups damage their reputation with the people. Acting in ways that deliberately cause this is a very foolish thing for them to be doing. They can not afford to be that stupid. When the police lose the good will of the citizens, they're pretty much fucked.
Chuck Grassley and Pat Leahy are co-sponsoring an act which would switch the burden of proof to the government, where it belongs. If those good police officers are doing good police work they won't have anything to worry about.
"... It's really nothing more than .gov sanctioned theft, by people bearing guns."
We all kind of knew that already, right? But, nicely said Will.
later
-Moe
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