Seen on the street in Kyiv.

Words of Advice:

"If Something Seems To Be Too Good To Be True, It's Best To Shoot It, Just In Case." -- Fiona Glenanne

“The Mob takes the Fifth. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” -- The TOFF *

"Foreign Relations Boil Down to Two Things: Talking With People or Killing Them." -- Unknown

“Speed is a poor substitute for accuracy.” -- Real, no-shit, fortune from a fortune cookie

"If you believe that you are talking to G-d, you can justify anything.” — my Dad

"Colt .45s; putting bad guys in the ground since 1873." -- Unknown

"Stay Strapped or Get Clapped." -- probably not Mr. Rogers

"The Dildo of Karma rarely comes lubed." -- Unknown

"Eck!" -- George the Cat

* "TOFF" = Treasonous Orange Fat Fuck, A/K/A Dolt-45,
A/K/A Commandante (or Cadet) Bone Spurs,
A/K/A El Caudillo de Mar-a-Lago, A/K/A the Asset., A/K/A P01135809

Friday, July 27, 2012

Why Nobody on the Pro-Gun Side Will Ever Seriously Talk to the Brady Folks

(Part 1 of a 3-part series. Later posts will deal with legal and technical issues.)

First, the history that I can recall:

The Brady Campaign started out as "Handgun Control, Inc." sometime in the 1970s Their position on handguns was pretty clear: No civilians should own them. As a point of fact, it was pretty clear that they held that civilians should not be allowed to own firearms, period.

After the first few mass shootings (one of them was in the UK, remember), HCI, which then had renamed itself into "The Brady Campaign", jumped on the bandwagon to try to ban those evil black rifles. TBC made it clear, at the time, that their idea of a "first step" was to ban the possession of EBRs and, for that matter, the possession of ammunition magazines that held more than six shots. They were against the sale of fully-jacketed ammunition, as those were "for military use". They were against the sale of hollowpoint ammunition because "they were designed to kill people". Rifles with scope sights were "sniper rifles" And, of course, they maintained their campaign to outlaw handguns. By that time (the 1990s), TBC denied that they opposed the private ownership of all firearms, but when pressed on what they thought were acceptable weapons for civilians to own, it was pretty much open-sighted .22 rifles.

As time wore on, it became clear to almost all concerned that HCI/TBC's strategy was to keep pushing and pushing for a complete ban. Incremental victories, such as the ban on production of further manufacture of fully-automatic firearms (1986) or the assault weapons ban (1994), were viewed as just that by HCI/TBC. In reaction, the grass roots of the firearms groups probably pushed the leadership on this point: There was nothing to be gained from talking to HCI/TBC any more.

Politicians began to take note. One of the first GOP politicians to babble on about "taking on the NRA" and instituting more gun control was a Republican Congressman named Peter Smith in Vermont. Around 1989, he came out firm for gun control and proclaimed that he wasn't "afraid of the NRA" and that the true Vermonters would support him. The state GOP stood behind him, the voters didn't, and he was kicked out of office in 1990.

Some lessons are slow for elected officials to learn, but this fact was not lost on the pro-gun side: Those who support ownership of firearms would turn out at the polls. Barney Frank knew that, for in the late 1980s, he advised his party that if they kept on following the gun-control crowd, they would lose.

They didn't listen to him. In 1993, the Democrats rammed through the Brady Bill. In 1994, they lost control of the Congress. The then Speaker of the House lost his election back home. Early in 1995, in a discussion that the gun-control crowd has tried to forget, Bill Clinton spoke to the editors of a Cleveland newspaper and lamented that it was the Brady Bill that cost the Democrats control of Congress.

(I should note that not all of the nuttery on this comes from TBC. The pro-gun groups can give rise to some conspiracy theories that can make you wonder if their leadership needs to have their meds readjusted.)

Where we are today is that other than a few areas in the country, the politicians know that a pro-gun control stance is tantamount to political seppuku. Even Hillary Clinton tried to play the pro-gun card four years ago.

For the pro-gun control side, all they have to seize on is events such as the Murderings of the Aurora Asswipe. Consider this:

Other than a few enlightened states, such as Connecticut and Vermont, concealed carry of handguns was largely illegal across much of the nation 25 years ago. Then states began permitting concealed carry by citizens. The gun control activists and their allies, at virtually every state where this was done, predicted that the streets would run with blood and that armed civilians would be shooting it out over parking spaces and traffic accidents.

The problem with that, of course, is that it didn't happen. The rate of violent crime has dropped in the last twenty years. For those who thought that the criminals would shift over to property crimes, those rates went down. The number of people with concealed carry permits went up. Firearms ownership went up. But crime rates went down.

That doesn't stop HCI/TBC from pounding their drums. They are ideologues. Other than clowns like the Mayors Against All Guns, most people who said they support gun control did so because of the purported linkage between crime and guns. Since crime rates have dropped, the argument that "gun control is the way to fight crime" failed for those in the reality-based community.

HCI/TBC has no serious constituency. Politicians do pay attention to membership amounts; TBC has less than 30,000 members, the NRA has over four million (the Second Amendment Foundation has over 650,000 members, though some folks may also be NRA members). Gun ownership rates in the country are such that in many states, a majority of the voting public own firearms.

HCI/TBC can send their drones out to talk. The New York Times and the Washington Post can publish their whinging editorials. But they have lost the argument and they know it.

That's why nobody will talk to the Brady folks.

(Co-bloggers take on things.)

14 comments:

Eck! said...

never write when you can't see the keyboard or nas hat uljn@.. you get junk.

One of the beauties is that those that believe in the constitution don't cherrypick.

The trolls will likely come out. Also those said same trolls that have anti-gun blogs really don't believe in 1A either [and likely 4a and few others too] and will silence those that walk their way.

Let the show begin.

Eck!

Latitude 43 said...

A well REGULATED militia. This whole discussion about the RIGHT to bear arms is getting beyond bizarre. How many innocent people have to die in this country because some people feel they have a right to have as many types of automatic killing machines as possible to feel free. Fucking assholes. Most of them will wet themselves before they would even think about pulling out their weapon. Be honest with yourselves for Christ sakes.

Comrade Misfit said...

Nothing like a rational, well-tempered response, eh, L43?

Phil said...

Their worst nightmare come to life.
Interesting to say the least,

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133514-the-worlds-first-3d-printed-gun

Latitude 43 said...

I apologize about the rant on your blog (might have been the Brooklyn Lagers), you don't deserve it, and it wasn't meant for you, but I wish more people would be a tad more fired up when it comes to this discussion, as then it may get elevated to the point where someone takes an interest. I would like nothing more than to see anyone with some clout uncork on congress with a 4 letter word laced barrage, showing some balls, and embarrassing those losers into standing up against some friggin gun club that's a front for the arms industry.

Comrade Misfit said...

I saw that on the AR-15 forum. While he has to add in a bunch of parts, none of those parts anything other than parts. Buying them is like buying spark plugs. The part he printed is the part that the Feds consider to be a "firearm".

Spud said...

This is the point that Anti-gun folks are missing. A person can simply build their own weapon, given the determination.
Kind of like what Einstein said about nuclear weapons. "Nothing can be done about the proliferation of these weapons given a determined individual"

empireofdirt77@gmail.com said...

I feel safer already: http://empireofdirt77.blogspot.com/2012/07/i-feel-safer-already.html. C'mon, can't we agree some restraints on weapons reasonable, like no high capacity magazines? How many assault rifles and rounds does it take to go deer hunting, for fucks sake?

Allan S said...

What was the catalyst that started the Brady Bill in the first place?

Eck! said...

Oddly it's a .22lr so the structural demands are fairly light. doing .22 is far easier that the more useful for hunting higher power rounds.

Besides anyone with skill and a milling machine could do (and have done) aluminum or even steel. A CNC mill would make reporduceable parts easier.

Eck!

Eck! said...

If that's all the Brady bill was then the argument would have less venom. And the catalyst was actually the shooting of President Regan and and press secratary James Brady. The weapon was a .22cal handgun at close range.. no rifles of any kind involved nor high capacity magazines.

The key here is the Brady Bill if in effect would have had zero effect on that and still zero effect on Colorado.

We are rife with poorly written laws that criminalize a wide variety of things and prevent nothing. Most gun laws are written by people that have no idea what the "thing that goes up" or what Carolyn Brady called the barrel shroud is. Obviously to her that makes a rifle more dangerous. This is a person that lobbied for various laws after a shooting in the empire state building (NYC has the Sullivan law making gun owner chip in NYC near impossible). You see criminals really do obey laws, not.

Seriously, would a belt of 10 round clips that don't have a habit of jamming
been better in Colorado over a 100rd drum that reliably does jam? Remember
it only take a few seconds to change a clip when empty but far more to clear a jam if you are inexperienced. I might add the military is quite strict on what
ammo and clips are used and the 100rd drum is not used by the military either considering their version is capable of firing full auto (machine gun).

Here in Volksrepublik of MA I can own a mini-14 rifle for hunting (after getting FID and LTC-B) and hunt with it. If I change the wood stock to an aluminum barrel shroud and a collapsible stock it's now an illegal firearm. We are not talking larger clips, or a bayonet, or automatic fire. It's the same thing as
adding a brush bar, and side pipes to your GM2500 PU!


Eck!

Eck! said...

Assault rifles are not legal for hunting, I know of no state that allows for automatic rifle (machine gun) for hunting.

They may look the same but that has nothing to do with anything. Confusing looks with function gets an argument every time.

The argument over clips and capacity is mostly pointless, the net effect
is in the end a criminal is define by lack of obedience to the law and a willingness to put others in harms way.


The AR15 pattern semi-automatic has become popular for those hunting feral pigs and for that the ability to get as many accurate shots off quickly is of value. However most pig hunters prefer a higher power round than the 5.56. The hunting version with wood rather than metal or plastic stocks is the Ruger Mini-14, same cartridge just less the evil black aluminum.


Eck!

Eck! said...

More fired up.. I'd like to see the perp (will not be named) be charged for every count and sentenced to death and be taken to near death that many times. However that will not happen as he will have more appeal rights then the victims and we have laws against cruel punishments. He will drag it out for years.

To me how is less important than that he did. That some one would go and
kill as if the people targeted were insignificant says he should never
see the light of day ever.

Now trying to be very neutral and take out emotion:

As to the well regulated militia. The founders made clear the defense of
the whole was a responsibility of the populace and that extended to each
other. The term well regulated didn't mean laws and rules but trained and
prepared. To this day there are people that are not survivalists that
prepare and train to assist in emergencies like this and those caused by
weather, accidents and other unpredictable events. That may mean knowing
how to shot but likely in this day running a tractor, radio or even
firstaid makes and being willing to help you part of the "well regulated militia" envisioned.

Now historically the British wanted to remove the powder and weapons and
limit the colonists ability to defend against things like the British army
(of conscripts and paid foreign armies), highwaymen (yes, criminals!) and
bands of Indians, plus a needed to hunt for game and protect from wild
animals (wolves, fox, bears). So yes being able to match or exceed your
foe was important then and some consider this a factor now.


Eck!

Frank W. James said...

Every time someone argues we have NO individual right to firearms or NO NEED for such and such type of gun, I figure they're just postulating their own individual prejudices and personal hatreds.

It's certainly NOT about lives lost, because if they were truly concerned about lives damaged and lost they would hold the feet of the medical establishment/profession to the fire.

Doctors kill more people in this country than firearms do and it's by a factor that is several times greater.

It's now coming out that a 'Doctor' failed in the latest massacre by NOT notifying the authorities of the mental problems the Colorado shooter was exhibiting while she was 'treating' him.

That worked real well, didn't it?

Wanting to write more restrictive firearms laws because the laws that are already on the books haven't worked is yet another definition of insanity or just plain stupidity.

The problem in most instances of high-body county crimes is not semi-auto firearms or normal capacity magazines, but the failures written into the system to protect those with a vested interest in maintaining the status-quo...

All The Best,
Frank W. James