The one thing that bothers me about the case is that I think he actually has a point that there were no real victims of the frauds perpetrated by the TOFF and his company.[1] Yes, the TOFF and his co-fraudsters vastly inflated the values of his properties. Yes, he lied about the size of his properties. But to whom did he lie?
He lied to large banks. He lied to entities that were fully capable of doing their own due diligence. His lie, for example, about the size and value of his apartment in Trump Tower were easily discoverable. Any rational lender could have easily discovered that the number of condos/apartments in New York City that had sold for a third of a billion dollars was about zero. They could have quickly seen the discrepancy between the claimed value of his Westchester estate and the assessed value. And they had to have been aware of his reputation as a sketchy operator who cheated everyone he could, from banks to construction workers and vendors.
He also lied to insurance companies to insure his properties for those excessive values. Again, they had the ability to discover the lies for themselves. And, unless he's been torching his properties, the insurance companies were happy to take the money.
The TOFF is a liar and a fraud. The banks and insurance companies knew, or should have known that. But they did business with him anyway.
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[1] I am not saying "alleged" as the judge has already found that fraud occurred.
Something Stinky About These Returns
1 hour ago
12 comments:
Good point. I think his lawyer is going to end up rope a doping the judge into having to declare
a mistrial in New York. Cannon will dismiss the charges in FL with prejudice, Johnson will spend a day praying and decide an election is simply too much to put the country through. I've tried to engage a few magats in a conversation about how their life has changed under Biden. No dice, We're in the deepest recession in history, unemployment is out of control, its a national hellscape.
Only one guy can fix it. November 9 2024 Trump fixes it.
Actually, the shareholders in the insurance companies and banks were defrauded of earnings by the action of the Trump Organization. That’s the basic NY fraud statue position. Additionally, Eric and Don Jr.’s testimony last week raises questions on another violation of the NY Corporation Laws…if they are as ignorant of their positional responsibilities and duties as they suggested with their testimony, they could be liable there too.
Watch for possible fun if the insurance companies decide to pursue illegal enrichment angles on any claims they paid to the Trump Organization on properties whose rates were artificially reduced via fraud.
Seafury is one of the people who drive me crazy. It is one thing to support policies that Trump began in his administration, and another thing to say that Trump is not only a saint, but the only answer out of these unique and uncertain times that America and the entire world finds ourselves in.
Maybe in 2016 we needed a businessman to attempt to fix some of our problems. But in 2024, I think that it will take a very solid statesman, or stateswoman, to maneuver us through the minefield that we are in, both domestically and throughout the world. Trump and others like him are not up to that task, and his character should be something that keeps him out of the race. Sadly that seems like it is too much for people to understand.
Shell games, montie, and pyramids. Pay to play
and if you don't you can't win.
It seems to me that it was about hacking the system. The
uber rich and those that can convince others they are in
play to make money game.
No victims.. If the higher value existed then the taxes
based on it have not been paid. Hence the need for lower
valuation. In short every tax payer is carrying his water
with none of us getting benefit.
There there are the banks, did they get paid? If not
their rates and policies reflect loss on bad debt.
Insurance companies do the same, again loss recovery, costs
to other insured.
No victims, just a lack of obvious bodies.
Eck!
Fraud is NOT a victimless crime.
By lying to the banks about the value of his properties, trump and co. took away moneys that could have gone to other clients, and created a situation down the road where trump would not be able to pay back on those loans by going into bankruptcy to where those banks would have to eat the losses. trump also skewed property valuation, which affected property owners near him in negative ways.
There's also how trump lied about the value of his properties to the tax collectors at the state - and federal - levels, which took away revenues that our governments could have used to pay for social services and/or paying down deficits.
People got hurt. You just don't see the bruises.
So maybe the people who should also be on trial are those in the banks and insurance companies who failed their fiduciary duties by doing business with the TOFF.
It wouldn't hurt to charge the banks for failing to do their duty. Hell, most of the banks were warned since the 1990s not to loan to trump anymore after his third (or fourth?) casino bankruptcy filing.
Thing is, our legal system went after Martha Stewart for far less than what they're proving right now what trump had done. But they've let the mega-banks and investment firms skate on all the fraud and deceit they performed during the Housing Bubble of the 2000s - that led to the Great Recession -and they're letting those banks do it again. We as a nation do not take white collar / fraud crimes at all seriously (because it violates our belief in Capitalism).
1.isnt there charges in New York about tax fraud?
2. Pigpen51, I think Seafury was being ironic / sarcastic about Trump and his MAGGOTS
I HOPE TRUMP GOES TO JAIL FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE...
Comrade, the banks and insurance companies would need to be sued by their stockholders/investors for fiduciary failures. The decision to insure or loan isn’t a NY State matter (as long as discrimination isn’t involved) like the fraud on taxes is…but if those companies decided to go for it, it would be hilarious.
So, trumples defrauded a lot of people a little, but not enough to sue him?
What about the people who get taxes taken out of their paychecks?
$168 million in interest lost between 2011 and 2021 by banks lending him money…that’s a tidy sum.
Cost of doing business?
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