Democratic leaders announced late Wednesday that they agreed with President* Trump to pursue a legislative deal that would protect hundreds of thousands of young undocumented immigrants from deportation and enact border security measures that don’t include building a physical wall.Trump has two problems that are chafing his balls. First, he doesn't have a single major win under his belt. He's not signed any legislation of note. Second, he's getting lambasted in the press. Oh, he might decry "fake news", but even he knows that getting praise from sources like Fox News are just the words of sycophants.
What he wants is a nice headline in the NY Times. Which he isn't getting. And if it means that he has to sell out Steve King, who is going into sad panda mode...
Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa), an immigration hard-liner and early Trump supporter, wrote that if reports of a potential immigration deal are accurate, the president’s “base is blown up, destroyed, irreparable, and disillusioned beyond repair. No promise is credible.”...don't expect Trump to care very much. He wants that win, and if he has to put Steve King into a coal mine or a whorehouse to do it, so be it.
Besides, if Steve King really believes that Trump's promises are worth anything, he needs to be watered twice a week. And Ann Coulter is also having one of her patented meltdowns.
Trump might be able to regain some momentum, but he's suffered a lot of self-inflicted wounds. His single-mindedness on repealing the ACA gave the Democrats an opportunity to beat the shit out of him and, for once, they didn't blow the chance. The price that the Democrats would have extracted for working on a bill with Trump was a lot cheaper last January. And other than the batshit-nutters like Steve King, the GOP knows that not getting something done on DACA will effectively spell the end of the GOP in the southwestern U.S.
For an example of that, you need only look to what happened to the GOP in California after Prop 187 was passed.
22 comments:
What is "border security that does not include a wall"?
Kinda like "No guns allowed" signs?
You can't have border security without a fence, or a wall or some sort of barrier. Even then, it doesn't stop everyone.
Nothing less than a wall will keep out those illegal Mexican drug smugglers with their cantaloupe-sized thighs.
Mexico is supposed to pay for the wall. That's what Trump promised. so go take it up with President Peña.
Build a 12 foot wall, and all you accomplish is creating a market for 14 foot ladders, B. To actually stop people from crossing a border, you need people. With guns. A *lot* of people with guns. Enough to have multiple squads on every mile of border 24/7. You'd need a million Border Patrol agents to fully patrol our southern border 24/7, and that isn't even the border that most illegals come in over anymore (net immigration from Mexico has been zero for most of this decade). Without guard towers and squads with guns, they just prop their 14 foot ladder against your 12 foot wall and hop right on over...
The question is, what good do we get from paying $150 billion per year for enough border patrol agents to truly secure our borders? What's the cost-benefit analysis there? Especially given net zero immigration from Mexico for the majority of this decade?
I'm trying (a little) not to giggle at the hard right true believers who bought Fergus' line of BS and are now howling about him betraying them. What did they think he was gonna do? What has he done to everyone he has ever dealt with when their usefulness to him ran out?
There's a thing farther up the page I feel they should have read:
"If Something Seems To Be Too Good To Be True, It's Best To Shoot It, Just In Case." -- Fiona Glenanne
Or at least look at it for a minute.
-Doug in Oakland
Wanna solve illegal immigration?
Two simple steps: 1) Reduce the incentive to come over the border with proper enforcement of the law (like fining the crap outta the slaughter houses that hire ineligible workers) and 2) Provide some basic assistance in developing reasons for people to stay in their country (jobs and opportunity).
Until then, we're in a war on drugs deadend. Do what you will, until you address the end point, the middle doesn't really matter.
Cp: I'll go for the first suggestion. Make it not worth employing anyone not legally able to work in the US.
And BadTux: Oddly where border walls are in place, they work. Even on the US southern border between Mexico and California, they work.
Yes, 2 walls with minefields between would work better, but gotta start somewhere.
Until there is no illegal immigration from the south, then the problem exists.
B, walls and borders can be tunneled under.
http://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/major-drug-tunnel-found-california-mexico-border-arrested/story?id=38560431u
http://www.kcra.com/article/chinese-migrants-lead-us-agents-to-california-border-tunnel/12109250
The latter was dug using Calgon and an ancient Chinese secret.
Furthermore, B, most illegal immigrants come in on student visas or tourist visas, they don't cross the border by jumping the border fence (which, BTW, *does* exist).
And the only walls that have ever worked have been walls that were patrolled by huge numbers of soldiers to keep that guy with the 14 foot ladder from jumping the 12 foot wall. And walls with minefields, but blowing up unarmed civilians is not what a civilized nation does, it's what brutal dictatorships like North Korea's dictatorship does. Funny that you want us to be just like a Communist dictatorship, eh?
So why then are you against he wall? I mean, if it doesn't work, or if the illegals just walk across the border post with visas (And you KNOW that is untrue) then why would you be against the wall?
Yes, they can be tunneled under. Or flown over. Or bypassed by anyone with a boat.
But it stops the folks (most of them) that walk across. Which is a start.
I still think a $10,000 fine for each person illegally employed by a business (or even more) would work very well. If only we had a decently working E-verify system....
Simple, really. Enter your SSN and up comes your DL picture. If it is you, then it is easily verified. If the pic doesn't look like you, then no job. Do it for EVERYONE. not just folks that appear to be from south of the border(or their ancestors). Lots of other illegals from other countries.
You do realize, of course, that 25% of black people and probably 50% of New York City residents don't have a driver's license, right? Of course, you probably don't care about that, since you don't want black people taking jobs that rightfully belong to white people anyhow, right?
The reality is that we don't have a national ID, and drivers' licenses are no substitute because not everybody drives. My brother, for example, is blind. He can't drive. He doesn't have a driver's license because he has no need for one (doh!). So you're saying he shouldn't be able to work because of his handicap?
As for the wall, a) it'll cut off wildlife habitat on a massive scale, even moreso than the current fence, b) it'll cost a stupendous amount of money, money that could be used to rebuild this nation's crumbling highways and bridges instead (where it'd actually do something of use for the nation), and c) it's useless because most illegals come in on tourist or student visas and overstay, they don't walk across the border. So you're proposing to spend a stupendous amount of money we don't have (remember, we'd have to borrow the money because we already have a deficit) on something that's useless. Yeah, how "conservative" is that?
Bad Tux:
If you wouldn't call me a racist to my face, plese don't do it here. I am growing tired of your left handed insults. Please, come out and say it, rather than be such a passive aggressive little worm.
If your brother needs one, I believe every state offers a State issued Id. You cannot be so ignorant as to not know that. Failing that, one can always get a passport, Either way, your brother could indeed prove who he is and this would meet the stated goal....to prevent illegal workers...Which would discourage illegal immigration. I doubt very strongly that those 25% of black people and 50% of Yew Yorkers have no ID. They need one for everyday things, like bank accounts or check cashing, government handouts (if they are getting them) or a job if they aren't. Either way, they need an ID and states provide non DL ID's for such a reason. I think you know this and are twisting.
You claim that it would cut off a "wildlife habitat". I call BS. I've been on a significant portion of the border. Ain't much there, friend. Desert. of it. Mule deer in some places...plenty of nothing....not much habitat, and what "wildlife" exists doesn't move much. I also call Bullshit that "Most illegals come over on student visas and don't walk across the border". You are lying or terribly misinformed...or stupid (I don't think you are stupid) And if you really believe that, then then again, the wall won't make any difference. The wall will be a fix for a great deal of illegal immigration, and will cost a bit more than 5 years of what illegal immigrants cost the citizens of the US....rather that the billions we waste every year trying to keep those nonexistent border crossers out currently.
Oh don't worry, B, I have no problem with calling a racist bigot a racist bigot to their face, I just wait for them to prove it first before doing so. Don't want to accidentally call someone a racist bigot when it's just a misunderstanding on my part, after all.
I already pointed out that more Mexicans leave the US than arrive over the border and that visa overstayers are the biggest problem with illegal immigration (that last is a link to the right-wing Washington Times, in case you're whining that I'm somehow making up "liberal facts"). The fact that you're unwilling to change your mind when new facts come to your attention is not my problem.
In short: The hundreds of billions of dollars needed to build an effective border wall across the entire border would have absolutely no effect upon illegal immigration, and would add hundreds of billions of debt to the national deficit while accomplishing nothing. That's the facts. You can whine and stamp your feet about it, but that doesn't change the facts.
B, as the old saying goes, if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and sounds like a duck.......
Your numbers are bogus. Simply because the numbers are mathematically extrapolated from reported numbers by the border patrol. Which was ordered to not apprehend folks. SO I question the numbers based on anything the border patrol reports.
Having said that, you may be right that illegal immigration is down.
We spent 12 billion a year guarding a long border, and no one really knows how many folks ravel across that border. We do know that where we built walls (California) it reduced illegal entry at those points. (may have moved it eslewhere, we REALLY DON'T KNOW). Spending that money on a wall instead of poorly manned observation posts and ground sensors in areas where there may or may not be anyone to interdict or investigate what is seen or sensed is a better investment, long term. Plus it would deter (probably not stop) a lot of drug smugglers.
You call me a racist. You don't know me. You don't know what I do for folks. you don't know that I think everyone is equal, and that black people DON'T Need special tratment. Those that want to succeed will, just like white people. Those that don't, won't. I don't care what color you are or what your "culture" is.
You are gonna go on about Mexicans now, and accuse me of racism against them. Don't. That is my ancestry. Barking up the wrong tree.
I object to being called a racist only because it is the last resort of small leftists who lose their argument, and are too lazy to find a better one. It angers me, but only because it is generally used by internet commandos who never have to face those who they insult.
BadTux: Where are you? Maybe I will come see you, and buy you a beer and a sandwich and then see if you are willing to insult me to my face after you've met me. I'm near Chicago. I travel at times, maybe I will be close to you soon. Care to share your location? perhaps you can meet me and decide?
Sorry B, but you haven't provided any sources for your assertions, repeating Infowars propaganda doesn't count as evidence.
So Dark Avenger:
What exactly have I done that lets you feel you can drop these thinly veiled hints that I am a Racist?
Seriously, feel free to show me.
And what, exactly, do you refute in my statements so that I can find sources acceptable to you to prove them? I'll be glad to provide proof if you'll tell me where you think I am wrong. Feel free to be specific as to what you think I am incorrect about. You don't have to prove I am wrong, just tell me where you think I am.
Everyone: Turn your thermostats down a couple of notches.
My apologies.
I dislike being called a racist by folks that don't know me, and can't even come out and do so, but rather use innuendo... .and do so when they can't win an argument with facts.
I will try to keep my temperatures in check.
My offer stands, however, if I knew where BadTux was, I might be able to meet him in my travels. My offer of a beer and a sandwich still stands as well.
Is Infowars racist? That's not what I meant in that comment, so your own paranoia about this issue is very revealing.
I'm right here in Oakland, B, if you wanna come by for a chat.
The immigration across the southern border has been at net zero for a while. What crime is caused by border crossers is either due to our drug prohibition laws creating a lucrative black market for drugs (which fucks Mexico up far worse than the US) or the human smuggling of mostly central Americans who are desperate to get here for one reason or another.
All the goddamn walldoggle was for was to rile up the Pig People at Fergus' rallies, and boy howdy did it ever work. Anyone who believes it ever had any other purpose is either really stupid, or really wants to believe their problems are all the Mexicans fault. Which is the same thing.
It doesn't take more than five mouse clicks on this here internet to learn how awful an idea a wall really is. Since you have the same access to that information as I do, I can only assume you don't want to know it, so I have nothing further to say to you, because what would be the point?
I will, though, point out that without Mexican migrant labor, large chunks of our economy would collapse, and no, Americans will not do those jobs, cannot do those jobs, and if they could, can not survive on the wages those jobs pay, so simply stopping the undocumented from working here is also a really stupid idea.
-Doug in Oakland
I my be out that way in November. If I am, I will contact you.
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