I'm working on fixing that. So this is what I'm adhering to. Any of things is a "bust:
- Touching down before the end of the runway.
- Touching down on or after the numbers.
- Mainwheels crossing the centerline stripe.
- Fast wheel landings.
- Adding power at any time after the initial reduction on downwind.
- Reducing drag (easing off the flaps).
- Slipping.
- Cutting corners on the pattern.
- Varying speed by ± 5mph from approach speed (no diving or stretching).
- Bouncing.
The airport has a grass runway. It once was only mowed to 1,400', which made for some really good short field practice. Now they mow it full length. I might get some grass paint and paint a rough 200' long touchdown box.
#1 on the list. Early on in my flight training--learning to land--well pre-solo, I made an approach, one of my very first. I thought I was doing okay, given my newness, but I landed in the grass about 75' short of the pavement. My instructor sat there, arms crossed, utterly mute, until I hit. He then said, "well that was pretty fucking stupid!". Never landed short again.
ReplyDelete#5 I've always considered that a mark of good airmanship. Unfortunately, I didn't get to practice it as much as I wanted. OPF (Opa Locka), the airport I flew in and out of, was the busiest airport in the world at the time (you can look it up, 1966/'67). It wasn't a good place for slow flight in the pattern. The other nearby airports (HWO, FLL) were fairly busy, too, so my power off, downwind to touchdown opportunities were infrequent.
#6 When it's not your airplane (or tires) you can be pretty cavalier about using flaps. Almost all of my first 200 hours flying out of OPF we almost always kept the flaps up. It's a shame, in a way. Those C150s had the old 40° flaps, and you could really slow them up when they were all the way out.
#7 Cessna doesn't like you slipping with flaps extended, so that's not something that gets used for killing altitude. I do regularly forward slip for crosswind correction, however.
#8 That must have been drummed into me pretty hard, because I really take that seriously.
#10 Since I only flew Cessnas (150, 172, 172RG, 177, 182, 182RG) I got really proficient in landing. Most of the time you can't even feel the mains touch.
Haven't flown in about 20 years. Exploring the possibility of renewing my medical and heading over to the aerodrome to get some dual--see how much rust is on my tools.
LRod
ZJX, ORD, ZAU retired
Interesting list - I agree with most but I wonder what you have against slipping. Our club taildragger was(*) a 7ECA, no flaps. Slipping is required unless you are lucky or a throttle jockey. When carried to extremes, yes it's a mark of a bad approach. But still sometimes kind of fun.
ReplyDeleteCutting corners in the pattern is another kind of approach control. Flying gliders (mostly) in the summer, you adjust the pattern to conditions. Yes, even rounding/trimming off the downwind to base. Some people advocate a continuously turning Navy approach, kind of the ultimate "cutting corners".
(*) down all year for work.
LRod, did the medical ever get denied? Taking a medial as a controller and not asking for the paper third class as well is NOT a denial. If that's the case, BasicMedical might work for you. Either way, you know to check with the local controllers on the "preferred" AME for the area. For that matter, you could always fly under the Sport Pilot standard.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThat is a bit more complicated than not bending the skids. In retrospect I can see where a time or two I would have been happy there had been a couple hundred hell even a hundred feet of rolling grassy green to slake the momentum. Helos are pretty binary when it comes to that, bad landings are really bad.
ReplyDeleteCenterGuy,
ReplyDeleteNo, it was never denied, just expired. I retired with a 2nd Class dated about 7/97. That means it reverted to a 3rd Class in 7/98, and I never renewed when it expired in 7/99. I have an AME nearby with whom I've begun discussions (indirectly through his nurse).
I've had several medical issues since '99 (three surgeries, NIDDM, syncope, etc.), which is why I'm concerned. You know how we always just wrote "no changes since last report"? I haven't been able to say that for a long time.
Thanks for the thoughts.
LRod
ZJX, ORD, ZAU retired
LRod, the flaps on Cessnas are amazing tools. I see a lot of Cessna pilots land without flaps. The flaps in my plane aren't anywhere near as good, but I always use them.
ReplyDeleteSarah, I fly a Stinson 108-2. It has flaps. I'm I'm doing a slip, it's because I misjudged things. Cutting corners also, for me, means I've misjudged things. I didn't turn base soon enough or I pulled off too much power. Maybe I misread the wind. Or my downwind was too wide and I didn't adapt to that.
Mostly it's about making myself fly better.
Slipping is not banned in C150s, just not recommended to the unknowing.
ReplyDeleteAfter an engine rebuild we were advised to keep it at full power or landing (idle).
Chrome cylinders and all. I learned to approach the home field which was busy (BED)
at full power and at cruse speeds something the tower liked but didn't understand knowing we were C150 as 100kts was not common with them in the pattern especially the training fleet used more like 70kts. The usual was left downwind entry and base cut the power smoothly and slowly to about 1000 rpm and on the base to final have about 80kts then start with flaps to 30 then 40 and full slip to burn the excess speed. Slipping a 150 blacks half the elevator so rearward CG is dangerous but normal (withing the CG range) is fine. THe things that have to be know is the elevator is very light (less than half the resistance) and airspeed indications will be very low (45mph for about 60 mph actual via LORAN-C and later GPS). At his point your flying by altimeter and feel and noting the indicated air speed stays at 45 in the slip. Kick the slip out before 100ft or after trees and make it normal full flap at normal speeds or about 60mph.
First time I did that on a Instructor/bi-annual he went white knuckle. But I talked him through it. Same for a failed flap fuse for an aborted landing with full flaps the nose is very low and the climb speed is 60mph! Mess with the fuse at altitude.
When done smoothly it was easy to execute a light touch and short field maximum performance landing with brakes. To keep it consistent with traffic behind the landing was targeted for normal turn out location and minimum brakes to expedite clearing the runway. Practice made that a normal approach for active fields with low crosswinds. Generally at controlled fields it was always noted the speeds
were high for small Cessna and appreciated.
I also have glider time and that was during my early flight time to get in a plane that needed serious rudder input to get fully coordinated turns (S2-33 lead sleds).
It also was helpful that the home field at that time was 69N a mostly grass strip in the flats a mile or so below the Lehighton hills. We used to go to ABE to practice mixing in with faster traffic.
Landings are the mark of airmanship. Its also the required maneuver and only required when terminating flying so all landings count, even after aborted takeoffs.
Eck!
Eck, I didn't say slips were banned. I said "Cessna doesn't like it", meaning it's not recommended (right out of the POH). And it's not just for 150s--I remember it in the 182 POH, too. Half of my time is in 150s, all the way back to straight tail versions. Half of the remainder is in 182s, and about the same in 172s.
ReplyDeleteThe reason is just as you stated. Full flaps reduces elevator effectiveness. If I had my choice of fully effective elevator vs landing fast/long, I'd find a field that had an extra 1000'. Fortunately, I was able to manage all of my patterns with 0-40° with an inverse application of slip with no difficulty.
I will grant I had the luxury of 8000' at OPF, and 3,500' or more at most any of the other practice airports, so my tools were hardly tested. By the way, that leads to a humorous flying story. In and out of OPF every day with 8000' X 150' wide runways, developed a sense of proportion. The first time we went to HWO (with the old wagon wheel layout), I looked down at that 3500' X 300' wide runway and thought, "how in the hell am I supposed to land on THAT postage stamp".
LRod
ZJX, ORD, ZAU retired
Cmon up here to Plymouth-Canton airport in Michigan (1D2). 2303 x 75 paved 18/36. There's a wide variety of aircraft types from C150, PA28-140, and DV20 thru SR22s, C182, and PA32-300 and even C337 and a BE55. All based there. As a reliever airport for the Metro area, even had a Pilatus here a couple of times. (Made for entertaining TO).
ReplyDeleteI encourage trying different techniques for landing. If you always use flaps to land, try some no flap landings. Even landings with only partial flaps is a good practice. Try making power off approaches or allow yourself only two power reductions (initial and idle) in the pattern. Exercise all the tools available in honing your flying skills (including takeoffs and landings at gross weight with willing passengers). The goals you've set for yourself are admirable. Once your consistent with those, try some other methods. Power-off 180s, spot landings, and crossing the threshold at 50' then landing are some suggestions. Happy flying..
Dale
LRod, "no changes since last report"...I almost threw my back out laughing...haven't been able to put that for over a decade. They went medieval on some N.Y. guys a little over 10 years ago, and we've been defensive every since.
ReplyDeleteThe changes to third class and self certifying have been immense in the last couple of years, there aught to be a way.
In the C-172S, the placard was against slips with full flaps, if I remember correctly. I know I did a side-slip on final on my PP ride because the check airman wanted me to save what I decided needed to be a go around, if I could figure a way to do it "safely".
L36, Rio Linda, CA
ReplyDeleteDimensions: 2625 x 42 ft. / 800 x 13 m
Traffic pattern: right left
Markings: NSTD
Runway end identifier lights: no, no
Obstructions: 60 ft. trees, 915 ft. from runway, 225 ft. right of centerline, 11:1 slope to clear 20 ft. trees, 384 ft. from runway, 50 ft. left of centerline, 9:1 slope to clear
Avoid school.
My home airport way back then, owned by William T Mauser. Note, I soloed at the huge ex-B-24 field, Lincoln Regional Airport/Karl Harder Field (Lincoln, CA, USA), KLHM.
Tod, I give you Marlboro (9B1):
ReplyDeleteDimensions: 1659 x 45 ft. / 506 x 14 m
Surface: asphalt, in fair condition
Weight bearing capacity:
Single wheel: 9.0
RUNWAY 32
42-20.518642N
071-30.382200W
273.1 ft.
Gradient: 0.3% UP
Traffic pattern: left
Markings: basic, in fair condition
Obstructions: 72 ft. trees, 200 ft. from runway, 1:1 slope to clear
RY 32 HAS +72 FT TREES ON CNTRLN 200 FT FM THLD.
That is one that I'd slip at. I'd come in as close to the trees as I dared, then I'd slip it hard to drop down to the runway.
Back when I lived nearby, I was doing a BFR. The CFi told me to do a short-field landing. instead of turning back to our home field, I turned towards 9B1. 32 was the active. he had never been in there, as the flight school where he taught limited them to 3.000' paved runways at a minimum. But my airplane, my rules.
I thought he was going to suck the seat cushion into his ass when we came over those trees.